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Pvp at 80?

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Worldie » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:52 pm

Uhm good point on dodging AS, but ShoR still cannot be dodged ;)

Plus, Sanctuary against dual wielder is OP.
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Postby Sheherezade » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:41 am

me, my warrior offtank and one of the elemental shammys teamed up for eots...man we slaughtered them! (shockwave is godly, haha)
...and between us we have like, 5 pvp items... :D

yeah, it's mana consuming, but there is usually a magetable somewhere in one of the BGs, and you have to remember that pvp isn't about 1 vs 1, if it's a fair fight you didn't bring enough people, as someone said(think it was around here somewhere).
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Postby Kethion » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:45 am

Worldie wrote:ShoR still cannot be dodged ;)
But it can miss. Rank 2 Evasion gives 50% dodge and 25% miss to ranged, which I believe qualifies HotR (unless I am horribly wrong and HotR isn't a melee distance range attack).

EDIT: You were talking about ShoR and I was babbling about HotR. I failed. /facepalm
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Postby Radience » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:56 am

Mana is big issue at 70 for PvP, but it should much better at 80 when you can use Divine Plea every CD.
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Postby Nemue » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:10 am

I was looking to make a post about PvP as prot, but i see someone beat me to it.

I have to say that ProtPvP currently is way more fun than it used to be, and despite still being incredibly weak vs some classes we have alot more use now than previously.

However, some glaring issues are still present imo.

1, Manaissues are still a very real issue, unless you´re 2-3 vs 1 your SoSanc just doesnt regen enough mana for you, i gain ~80 mana each time i block/dodge/parry, my avengers shield cost almost 800 to use and consecration costs around 600, in a 1v1 you just dont regen fast enough and you´ll be oom seconds into the fight, to be perfectly honest i dont see Divine Plea heaping with this issue too much, 25% of your total mana when your total mana is just under 5k isnt more than 1200ish mana, thats basically gone in 1 avengers shield. Not to mention that against casters or when you´re not being hit your mana is gone in 5 seconds aswell. I think the manaregen on the Bless. of sanctuary is on the wrong talent, it should be somewhere else or redesigned. 2% isnt enough when you´re not zerged, same goes for soloplay vs singletarget mobs btw.


2. Because of the still very real manaissues, you are pretty much forced into using Bless. of sanctuary, where bless. of might is a good alternative since it now gives u loads of AP, which in turn effects your sealdmg, but because you dont regen any mana if u use it, you cant use any blessing other than sanctuary, we´re pretty much pigeonholed there.

3. Dispells are still the bane for non-retridins, every single core-buff we have as prot is dispellable, even with stoicism, they got 70% chance to strip ur buffs, its not enoughl. Also sanctified seals are still too deep in retritree, should be swapped with heart of the crusader so other speccs than retri can enjoy being immune to having their seals dispelled. Preferably i´d like to see a similar dispellimmunity mechanic slapped onto some deep prot-talent so stuff like RF/holy shield and our shieldwall isnt so easy to dispell.


I would have liked to post a thread like this one on the yank-forums where theres actually a chance a dev might answer it, but being a Europlayer i cant access it, and posting it on the Euroboards is about as meaningless it can get since no blue that knows anything ever posts there :(
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Postby Playdoh » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:48 am

my avengers shield cost almost 800 to use and consecration costs around 600


don't use concecrate unless you have > 3 on you


Because of the still very real manaissues


Remember we don't get Divine Plea until 71

Return on mana for sanctuary blessing is a godsend!! if they put it on a different blessing it would be available to all spec's, and blizz has said they want mana to be a concern for raids just not threat.
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Postby Nemue » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:00 am

Playdoh wrote:
my avengers shield cost almost 800 to use and consecration costs around 600


don't use concecrate unless you have > 3 on you


Obviously consecration on singletargets arent always a bright idea, but it is still pretty decent dps, and not being able to use it unless you´re zerged because you´ll go OOM otherwise feels pretty limiting. Not to mention if you´re competing for threat not being able to use every threatability you have is also pretty limiting. Not that threat is that big of an issue atm, but still. Same goes for Frisbeeshield. An intresting sidenote, if you put BoSanc on a Warrior, he needs to dodge/parry/block twice to use Thunderclap, how many times do u need to dodge/parry/block to put down consecration or throw a shield?



Playdoh wrote:
Because of the still very real manaissues


Remember we don't get Divine Plea until 71

Return on mana for sanctuary blessing is a godsend!! if they put it on a different blessing it would be available to all spec's, and blizz has said they want mana to be a concern for raids just not threat.


Yes, the manaregen from BoSanc IS godsent, but having it on Bless of Sanc. also means you cant use any other Blessing, cause then you´re fucked manawise, and if u fight a caster you´re still fucked, and if you fight someone that can dispell, guess what? yes you´re fucked. Divine Plea will help but i dont think its enough to keep us floating on singletargets Solo-PvE/PvP, sinply cause some of our abilities costs so much mana, and not being able to use those abilities will be a limiting factor.
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Postby Sheherezade » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:11 am

don't forget the -3% damage from BoS, it helps...
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Postby Playdoh » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:24 am

An intresting sidenote, if you put BoSanc on a Warrior, he needs to dodge/parry/block twice to use Thunderclap, how many times do u need to dodge/parry/block to put down consecration or throw a shield?


None, i start out with a full rage bar. And if I watch my bar then I will most likely be able to use what I need when i need it.

Sure we will still have problems with mana burns, casters and being kited. If there was one class that was good at killing all the other classes most of us would only play that class in BG's.

Yes we can go oom still, but at least I feel I am contributing in bg's without respec'ing.
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Postby Nemue » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:11 am

Playdoh wrote:None, i start out with a full rage bar. And if I watch my bar then I will most likely be able to use what I need when i need it.


Given the luxury of picking bars, i´d be picking the one with infinite resources, with BoSanc, 10 seconds into the fight their ragebar will be full and it will never drop below 70%, while 10s into a solofight when you have used your full rotation you will be at 50% and only going down because the 2% manareturn is too small to sustain the full rotation, and it will become increasingly worse as you fight things thats not hitting you. I dont want to turn the argument into a warrior vs paladin thing, there is enough of that, all im saying is that a full rotation costs too much and cant be sustained with the manaregen we have.

Playdoh wrote:Sure we will still have problems with mana burns, casters and being kited. If there was one class that was good at killing all the other classes most of us would only play that class in BG's.


Protadins is pretty far away from being the anticlass for all classes, and im not arguing we should be either, im saying we have issues, because we have, you dont have to be a manaburner to run us OOM. unless we have several melees beating on us, you´ll be running yourself OOM pretty fast on your own. it needs to be fixed. And its not the only issue, pigeonholed into using sanctuary only and having your entire combatsystem along with your core abilities completly dispellably are 2 other issues that are just as severe in PvP.

Playdoh wrote:Yes we can go oom still, but at least I feel I am contributing in bg's without respec'ing.


We can go OOM and we do, mana is no matter how u turn it still a huge issue still in pvp. We are more useful than pre 3.0, but that doesnt say a whole lot really cause pre 3.0 we along with protwarriors we're at the rockbottom of the PvPchain by a large margin.

I think for PvE we are pretty fine where we are, i have no issues currently in that regard, but PvP is a completly different thing, while i realize many dont consider prot to be something u should use for PvP, i like to go there, i enjoy tanking but i also quite enjoy the PvP aspect of the game, and i´d like to go there without being overly flawed. They fixed Protwarriors extremely well in both PvE and PvP, i expect the same goals for the protadin-specc, but currently they got ways to go yet.
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