Changing perspective on tanking

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Changing perspective on tanking

Postby wrathblood » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:12 pm

So, now that tanks put out gigantic threat, how do we separate the good ones from the less good ones? Sure, you always want tanks who know the fights and position things properly and pick up ALL the mobs instead of just MOST of them, etc. but that's the gap between bad and mediocre not between mediocre and good. If you're looking at recruiting a tank for raiding, you expect them to do the basics. How do you differentiate after that?

What do people think? Will tank dps be the new differentiator? At 1k+ potential dps, 200-300 dps gaps between tanks are entirely possible. You'd certainly a park a dps who was 200-300 dps lower than another dps.

Alternatively, though threat is still a non-issue in t7, could dps scale up so fast that by t8 threat is a problem again?

What do people think?
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Postby Scrawn » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:35 pm

I suppose when push comes to shove it will be DPS (not only measurable by gear but also shows knowledge of correct rotations etc).

Other important things that I as a raid leader will look out for:

Tanks reactions to "Oh Shit" situations
Their ability to use utility skills such as our "Hands"
Good spatial awareness / Positioning
Good attitude
Going to each boss fight knowing the fight 100% even if its our first try
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Postby knaughty » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:58 pm

Scrawn wrote:Tanks reactions to "Oh Shit" situations
Their ability to use utility skills such as our "Hands"
Good spatial awareness / Positioning
Good attitude
Going to each boss fight knowing the fight 100% even if its our first try

This.

And P.P.P.P.P.P.

Turning up in the right gear for the fight, doing your own research, having useful suggestions for getting bosses dead.

Skill at leading the raid, since you're an MT.
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Postby Jasari » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:57 am

It'll be similar qualifications that you use for healers. Healing meters, especially in late T6/sunwell content weren't very accurate in seeing who the good healers are, more just showing who's spec'd CoH and which shaman has better chain heal timing. It'll ultimately come down to a subjective evaluation of who has better decision making and situational awareness. And I'd honestly rather have that than who can put out the most threat, because putting out threat is just like DPSing, it doesn't really take any thought, just a little theory crafting before hand and then mashing the right order of buttons when the fight starts.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:07 am

Basically everything else, duh =D

Survivability
Judgment on changes in the fight
Adapting to the unexpceted
Knowing how the fuck to move the mobs
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Postby Playdoh » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:11 am

How fast you can get through the instance with no wipes.

Tanks are the ones to do the pulls and therefore most likely are the ones setting the pace of the group.
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Postby Levantine » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:12 am

Knowing the difference between the fire you're allowed to stand in and the fire you're not allowed to.
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Postby daemonym » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:52 am

Levantine wrote:Knowing the difference between the fire you're allowed to stand in and the fire you're not allowed to.


funny, warlocks seem to argue that standing in all fire gives them a spell damage buff the longer they stay in it...
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Postby Conaan! » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:09 am

daemonym wrote:
Levantine wrote:Knowing the difference between the fire you're allowed to stand in and the fire you're not allowed to.


funny, warlocks seem to argue that standing in all fire gives them a spell damage buff the longer they stay in it...


http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30302
DUH <P


btw, just like you do now, TPS is still gonna be recorded, check his rotation, see the problems he causes and the problems he fixes
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Postby mirkodeluxe » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:11 am

Conaan! wrote:
daemonym wrote:
Levantine wrote:Knowing the difference between the fire you're allowed to stand in and the fire you're not allowed to.


funny, warlocks seem to argue that standing in all fire gives them a spell damage buff the longer they stay in it...


http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30302
DUH <P


btw, just like you do now, TPS is still gonna be recorded, check his rotation, see the problems he causes and the problems he fixes


Well, assuming that all AoE counts as being hit by a spell they still dont get a spelldmg buff.. And you know, taking 0 damage is always smarter than taking 60% less :P
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:16 am

mirkodeluxe wrote:
Conaan! wrote:
daemonym wrote:
Levantine wrote:Knowing the difference between the fire you're allowed to stand in and the fire you're not allowed to.


funny, warlocks seem to argue that standing in all fire gives them a spell damage buff the longer they stay in it...


http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30302
DUH <P


btw, just like you do now, TPS is still gonna be recorded, check his rotation, see the problems he causes and the problems he fixes


Well, assuming that all AoE counts as being hit by a spell they still dont get a spelldmg buff.. And you know, taking 0 damage is always smarter than taking 60% less :P
I used to spec nether protection for Illhoof, it's funnier because the healers get gibbed with 740 knockbacks.
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Postby Conaan! » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:33 am

mirkodeluxe wrote:
Conaan! wrote:
daemonym wrote:
Levantine wrote:Knowing the difference between the fire you're allowed to stand in and the fire you're not allowed to.


funny, warlocks seem to argue that standing in all fire gives them a spell damage buff the longer they stay in it...


http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30302
DUH <P


btw, just like you do now, TPS is still gonna be recorded, check his rotation, see the problems he causes and the problems he fixes


Well, assuming that all AoE counts as being hit by a spell they still dont get a spelldmg buff.. And you know, taking 0 damage is always smarter than taking 60% less :P


it used to make them immune to it, it got nerfed imo
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Postby Ankiseth » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:47 am

the tank that doesn't fat finger taunt on brutallus :<

thank god for SW nerfs >.<
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Postby Equillian » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:26 am

Spatial awareness has probably ALWAYS been the most important. I wouldnt think that would change. Every great tank knows that you can't macro "skill". Knowing what to hit, when to hit it, and not just what YOU are doing, but your team. Knowing not only what your mana is at, but your healers, and even your DPS... these are all part of tanking. It's not just "Build Threat" and Pulls.

Hope this helps mate!
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Postby dmok » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:54 am

Another important attribute that I feel almost any tank/dps/healer needs ...

... is to LISTEN.


Yes, you are the tank. Yes, 90% of the time you can control how and when things happen. But that's not 100% of the time. Something goes wrong, you have to be able to still follow the orders from someone who may be more aware of things than you are. Often it's hard to see everything that's going on if you are staring at the boss's kneecap. Having to tell a tank to reposition the boss 4 times, even on nerfed-to-shit fights, doesn't show well on you at all.

"Oh, sorry. I didn't hear you."




On another note, I know people have been bragging over and over about how they were the OT and pulled aggro off the MT and were all proud and whatnot. This isn't something I approve of, unless you're on a fight like Void Reaver. Everyone else is healing/adjusting to one specific tank and how they control the fights. Especially if its progression content. To suddenly "take over" has the possibility to throw off at minimum the healers. Not to mention if you aren't the best as listening (see above) you can throw off the entire raid when something expected just doesn't happen.
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