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Upcoming boss armor changes

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Faeth » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:31 am

Snake-Aes wrote:And Faeth, wtf man? Why do others have to be competitors?

What's wrong with considering other tanking classes as competitors in a healthy manner?
Competition is what drives me. The guild i'm in has a skilled warrior and druid and i respect them for it. But i also think it's only natural to want to compete with them as well on, say, TPS, mitigation, Overall control and even DPS.

What's wrong with that?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:39 am

Faeth wrote:What's wrong with that?
It ends up in locked threads, I'm afraid. QQ takes over, it's annoying.
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Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:23 am

http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... hp?t=11557

41k views, no lock. As long as it is a comparison and not a QQ it is no problem.

Prot-Warrior: Nerf
Feral Druid: Nerf
Prot Paladin: Minor Nerf

This is all I'm saying. No bad change for prot at all.
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Postby Faeth » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:24 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
Faeth wrote:What's wrong with that?
It ends up in locked threads, I'm afraid. QQ takes over, it's annoying.


If that's the case then i fear people take words like 'competitors' too much out of their context. It's propostrous to place a taboo on key-words because they *might* cause people to not respect forum policy.

As for the topic : This change applies to all tanks. I believe GC at least said that they would continuesly keep an eye on Tank TPS scaling compared to DPS threat...If i'm not mistaken.

[edit]
Ofc it also impacts melee DPS, but i don't think it's the intended scope of this forum, nor is it mine :)
[/edit]
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Postby Noradin » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:59 am

Faeth wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:And Faeth, wtf man? Why do others have to be competitors?

What's wrong with considering other tanking classes as competitors in a healthy manner?


While competition in the sense of "trying to get better than someone else by work" is ok, getting less nerfs from Blizzard than other classes has nothing to do with competition at all - in fact it prevents competition if it causes classes to be imbalanced and have (too big) advantages over each other.
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Postby Dendrah » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:15 am

Our advantage over them on this part is probably balanced by their advantage on us on another part of the equasion.

To me the other tanks in my guild are friends with who I'll bricker and compete for who is the best man to do the job. I'll put a DPS warrior to tanking Maiden if he wants to, just because the bitch silences. But don't they dare challenge my superieur TPS on any demon this game has.

If you don't see getting better as a tank as some kind of competition then you're doing it wrong imho. You do that ofc not by breaking them down or holding them away from info. But you do that by browsing this forums all day to find the lateste hottest craziest ideas to do certain situations.
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Postby Neuron » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:29 am

Wonder if this buffs the value of armor ignore.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:32 am

The opposite, I'd wager. Takes more armor ignore to reach 0 again, and the more armor you have, the less it's valuable, so the first few% removed armor won't be as much of an increase as the last few%
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Postby Mortehl » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:44 am

Armor Pen is percentage based. This actually in a bassackward way makes ArP more valuable. BTW, a significantly larger amount of threat comes from our white damage now so while this isn't a -huge- change, it is something to keep an eye on.

You know, I find this to be a little like using a sledgehammer to nail a thumbtack into a wall. The change is squarely aimed at huntards who are only able to do the kind of DPS they do because Judgement of Wisdom procs so much. I'm not going to go deep into huntard theorycrafting, but on a 3 minute fight, the current JoW gives a MM huntard back 33,000 mana. That means no time spent in Viper which was the intended mechanism to bring huntard DPS down.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:49 am

Mortehl wrote:Armor Pen is percentage based. This actually in a bassackward way makes ArP more valuable. BTW, a significantly larger amount of threat comes from our white damage now so while this isn't a -huge- change, it is something to keep an eye on.

You know, I find this to be a little like using a sledgehammer to nail a thumbtack into a wall. The change is squarely aimed at huntards who are only able to do the kind of DPS they do because Judgement of Wisdom procs so much. I'm not going to go deep into huntard theorycrafting, but on a 3 minute fight, the current JoW gives a MM huntard back 33,000 mana. That means no time spent in Viper which was the intended mechanism to bring huntard DPS down.
Exactly like in BC.

JoW = huntardz dun need mana
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Postby elfjorc » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:59 am

Mortehl wrote:Armor Pen is percentage based. This actually in a bassackward way makes ArP more valuable. BTW, a significantly larger amount of threat comes from our white damage now so while this isn't a -huge- change, it is something to keep an eye on.

You know, I find this to be a little like using a sledgehammer to nail a thumbtack into a wall. The change is squarely aimed at huntards who are only able to do the kind of DPS they do because Judgement of Wisdom procs so much. I'm not going to go deep into huntard theorycrafting, but on a 3 minute fight, the current JoW gives a MM huntard back 33,000 mana. That means no time spent in Viper which was the intended mechanism to bring huntard DPS down.


Melee scaling probably also has something to do with it, otherwise they'd just have changed Hunters.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:02 am

Yes it does, they were talking about assassination rogues still wtfpwning after that.
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Postby crabcrouton » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:59 am

Yeah it sounds like an issue with melee scaling hastily tacked onto a Hunter issue.
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Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 am

Mortehl wrote: I'm not going to go deep into huntard theorycrafting, but on a 3 minute fight, the current JoW gives a MM huntard back 33,000 mana. That means no time spent in Viper which was the intended mechanism to bring huntard DPS down.


Was JoW not with a 4 sec internal CD?

If you assume it procs ever 5 sec that would mean 12 procs per min or 36 procs per 3 min. 1 proc 2% mana and 36 procs then 72% mana reg.

Is the internal CD gone? About how many procs are we talking there? And how much max Mana does a buffed MM has? 10k?
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Postby Lore » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:22 am

Mortehl wrote:Armor Pen is percentage based. This actually in a bassackward way makes ArP more valuable. BTW, a significantly larger amount of threat comes from our white damage now so while this isn't a -huge- change, it is something to keep an eye on.

You know, I find this to be a little like using a sledgehammer to nail a thumbtack into a wall. The change is squarely aimed at huntards who are only able to do the kind of DPS they do because Judgement of Wisdom procs so much. I'm not going to go deep into huntard theorycrafting, but on a 3 minute fight, the current JoW gives a MM huntard back 33,000 mana. That means no time spent in Viper which was the intended mechanism to bring huntard DPS down.


Hunter DPS was high well beyond just the amount of mana they got from JoW. In fact, this is only a slight nerf to any of their abilities that cost mana. It's a bigger one to Autoshot, which was what they were aiming at.
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