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Sunwell in 3.0.2 (TL;DR: Nerfwell)

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Tieran » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:32 pm

Thats some crazy tactics there elsie :P

Talking back on nerfwell.... This reset we have gone from 0/6 to 4/6 with two days left and we have every intention of getting a glimpse of KJ.

Have they nerfed it too hard?

In my honest opinion yes - I have not enjoyed any of the kills and by the sounds of things on vent (no nerd screams etc) neither has the rest of the guild.

We are only a casual guild but this has been a walk in the park....
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Postby Elsie » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:43 pm

Thats some crazy tactics there elsie

Not really, a lock and paladin die in about the same number of phase 2 hits due to the hit point difference. You just get over-healed less. Threat is non-issue if you spend a little time getting your threat up during the transformation.
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Postby Aldonza » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:37 pm

I've got a general question for the guilds that are just now getting KJ.

What kind of dps is your raid outputting for the fight?

My guild was stuck on M'uru until the patch, and other than some crappy attendence by some people, we shouldn't be struggling as much as we are. I'd like to see the comparison between other guilds and ours to see where we are failing.
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Postby Tiranknight » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:50 pm

Just a quick question couldn't find it in patch notes maybe I missed something.

but was the Sunwell Radiance effect taken out of the game with the patch? or do the mobs in Sunwell still reduce your avoidance?
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Postby PsiVen » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:45 pm

Illidan does a debuff (I believe it's a +% shadow damage taken stack) if you try to stand in melee in that phase. He also easily bursts a tank with low HP (i.e. any ranged class) if they wear no SR. If you want to DPS him in demon form you need a ranged tank. Most guilds write off DPSing in demon form as inherently dangerous, but keep a ranged tank so that if something goes wrong on the transition, they'll still be able to get aggro back without being roasted by the melee debuff.

I know the way we always did Illidan (in both guilds I've done him with) involved maybe 2-3 healers in range of the tank that phase, so it was necessary to minimize the damage they took.

Morganim wrote:30% - 0% was instant kill time pre 3.0

if you made it through p4 with only 2 or so dead you won. with the lack of orbs that final phase was cake.

55% to 30% was the hard part of the fight pre-3.0 although now the whole things a joke


Phase 5 begins at 25%, not 30%. The hard part was getting him to 25% without losing control around 30%. It is very, very possible to have 25 people alive at 30% and 15 at 25%.
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Postby Morganim » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:02 am

PsiVen wrote:Phase 5 begins at 25%, not 30%. The hard part was getting him to 25% without losing control around 30%. It is very, very possible to have 25 people alive at 30% and 15 at 25%.


Yah i do know that.
But from what we found if you didnt wipe at 30% you had a kill in your hands and it would take a tremendous amount of retardism to wipe beyond that point.

Soon as that 30% darkness was cast, if you spread out again and had 22-23 still alive the kill was yours. We only ever wiped once in p5 and that was the first time we got there, the 2nd time was a kill
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Postby sanctifico » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:34 am

Raid dps varied from 26-31k - but we worked out how some guilds get him down to 4-5% before the first darkness, since the timer resets if you get to the next phase before the timer.

Out of 23 attempts since Sunday (we had 4 attempts Sunday 19 last night 4.5hours) We have had 3 sub 20% wipes and lots about 40-25%

Of these Sub 20% trys (last three of the night)
1st. Darkness caught us out due to the increased speed.
2nd. I got gibbed on holypaladin reflections (damn chain stun) + explosion = raid got zerged one by one as the prot warrior ran round gathering them.
3rd. 24/25 alive dps going well 2min duration for dragon ran out, just as we got to 1 on the cast countdown.

http://wowwebstats.com/v5ijlsbaa3chq?s=608565-658128

Few changes dps ars switching to Deamonslaying elixirs (since we dont need them for Brut). Our resident fury warrior will grab the first add and it'll be stunnlocked down so we dont loose a dps spot having a third tank.

One of the dps will be taking a second dragon at about 35% to ensure there is a dragon up for the colapse.

Reptile the threatninja warrior (vigilance), is going to MT the boss so we dont have to slack dps for threatcap (warlock tanking is fu*ked).
I Highly reccomend using JoL on Kil'Jaeden, as you will generate about 1000+ tps on the adds just from that. and it reduces the chances of people getting gibbed by a lot.
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Postby Morganim » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:04 am

howd ur dragon run out, in p5.

You should have 2 dragons up and 4 orbs. More than enough time to kill it
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Postby sanctifico » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:07 am

Morganim wrote:howd ur dragon run out, in p5.

You should have 2 dragons up and 4 orbs. More than enough time to kill it


We didnt notice the second person allocated to Dragon, was the 25th person who was dead from early on. So we didnt get the second dragon up :p

The dragon ran out less than one second before the explosion cast finished so it was just very unlucky 2-3seconds longer and it would have been a kill for sure.
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Postby Aldonza » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:58 am

Thanks for the tips. I'm passing it on to my guild to see if it will help them.

We were having major DPS issues though last night because people wanted to try out new specs that weren't working very well. I'm BM with pretty much one piece of Sunwell gear, and I was consistently top 5 (over a bunch of people who are decked out in multiple Sunwell pieces) and my pet out-dps'ed a couple of ranged players a few attempts.

Our raid makeup wasn't the best though, imo.
We had two DPS warriors, two Ret paladins, two feral druids, one enhancement shaman, two elemental shaman, three hunters, one warlock DPSing (because they are still doing the warlock tank), and two shadow priests. We had alot of issues with people not burning down the orbs when they would spawn. I switched my main shot to a macro that automatically targets the orbs if they are up, and I stand relatively close to where they spawn consistently, so I'm normally able to burn through one each time, but you would see no dots up on it, and it would just rotate through the deadzone of where no DPS was and we'd lose people to the pewpew power of the orb.
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Postby Karador » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:04 am

Tiranknight wrote:Just a quick question couldn't find it in patch notes maybe I missed something.

but was the Sunwell Radiance effect taken out of the game with the patch? or do the mobs in Sunwell still reduce your avoidance?



Yes it was taken out when the patch went live. 48% dodge on Brut FTW lol
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Postby Markoh » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:40 am

Morganim wrote:
PsiVen wrote:Phase 5 begins at 25%, not 30%. The hard part was getting him to 25% without losing control around 30%. It is very, very possible to have 25 people alive at 30% and 15 at 25%.


Yah i do know that.
But from what we found if you didnt wipe at 30% you had a kill in your hands and it would take a tremendous amount of retardism to wipe beyond that point.

Soon as that 30% darkness was cast, if you spread out again and had 22-23 still alive the kill was yours. We only ever wiped once in p5 and that was the first time we got there, the 2nd time was a kill


Not really, I guess it might be strat dependent but one problem we had was that with all the moving people would accidentally end up in the safe spot, or they would move to the safe spot too early. Another thing that actually killed us once were those damn pally reflections. I got stunned and ended up getting meteored, though thats kinda rare.
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Postby Elsie » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:43 am

Illidan does a debuff (I believe it's a +% shadow damage taken stack) if you try to stand in melee in that phase. He also easily bursts a tank with low HP (i.e. any ranged class) if they wear no SR. If you want to DPS him in demon form you need a ranged tank. Most guilds write off DPSing in demon form as inherently dangerous, but keep a ranged tank so that if something goes wrong on the transition, they'll still be able to get aggro back without being roasted by the melee debuff.

Paladins can keep ranged threat and you can build threat before the transition is over. I only tried it once, but it's pretty easy - especially with traps. Yes, it involves writing off dps in p2 as a lost cause since distance is more important for the babies.

We had two DPS warriors, two Ret paladins, two feral druids, one enhancement shaman, two elemental shaman, three hunters, one warlock DPSing (because they are still doing the warlock tank), and two shadow priests. We had alot of issues with people not burning down the orbs when they would spawn.

That isn't so bad since 3.0. A lot of the buffs are covered with that set up if a lock is affliction.
Last edited by Elsie on Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby sanctifico » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:44 am

Aldonza wrote:One warlock DPSing (because they are still doing the warlock tank


We had huge threat issues with a warlock tank, Dps had to stop, ret pala getting agro, hunter getting agro, mage getting agro.

If you use a melee tank, warrior/druid/paladin, you'll get rid of any threat cap issues which will increase DPS dramatically.
Fair enough the tank will get knockback now and then (lol), but when he's doing 4-5k tps It not a problem. (our warrior did it in like Fury/Prot gear using Shield + One hander and stole my threat (serves me right for hugging him)

If you have a paladin for the Adds, tell him/her to Judge Light, as you gain threat from the healing proc on other players =D (I was doing 1k tps without even touching KJ :p)
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Postby Aldonza » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:25 am

The lock DPSing tried to do Affliction but she couldn't generate more than 1K DPS with the spec.

I think our biggest problem was the fact that we had several people who weren't pulling their weight with DPS. Probably a mix of gear and DPS rotations. To highlight how poor the DPS was, we've been lucky to get to Phase 4 with only two Darknesses. We are normally right on the cusp of a third Darkness when we push to Phase 4, and then half the people who can't move properly are alreay dead.
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