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So, is prot viable for solo compared to ret now?..

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Postby majiben » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:09 am

Zalaria wrote:
Majiben wrote:
halabar wrote:so how is the horseman's blade?... :D
It's meh. It'll work if it's your first lvl 70 weapon but it has low stamina, only a little bit of agility for avoidance, and fairly low dps. It really is a blue quality item that's purple to get people excited.



Horseman's Blade

a "real" epic


Just because epics are from lower tiers doesn't mean they're not good.
Maybe it's not the best for us, but then again it wasn't designed for us!

Hmm I could have swore that it was only 71dps. If it is 87 then it's not so bad. If you remember the summer festival epic staff it really was quite poor and I thought it was a repeat situation.
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Postby Macha » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:18 am

Retri is better, sure, but not that much better. I do about 75% of my retri dps as prot in the same gear. And really, that is enough for me.

Prot has no downtime either, and it is more fun. So, well, Ret is hyped. Go with prot if you like it, Ret is only for these who like 2hander stuff or these who want to speedlevel.

The rest of us can enjoy the game properly and still be 80 in two weeks.
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Postby halabar » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:10 am

Majiben wrote:
Zalaria wrote:
Majiben wrote:
halabar wrote:so how is the horseman's blade?... :D
It's meh. It'll work if it's your first lvl 70 weapon but it has low stamina, only a little bit of agility for avoidance, and fairly low dps. It really is a blue quality item that's purple to get people excited.



Horseman's Blade

a "real" epic


Just because epics are from lower tiers doesn't mean they're not good.
Maybe it's not the best for us, but then again it wasn't designed for us!

Hmm I could have swore that it was only 71dps. If it is 87 then it's not so bad. If you remember the summer festival epic staff it really was quite poor and I thought it was a repeat situation.


Well, unless I get in a ZA or Hyjal pug, I doubt I'm going to get any better before Wrath. Guess I could grind for the MGlad slicer.. but I hate chasing folk around in BGs.
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Postby uke » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:24 am

Macha wrote:
Retri is better, sure, but not that much better. I do about 75% of my retri dps as prot in the same gear. And really, that is enough for me.

Prot has no downtime either, and it is more fun. So, well, Ret is hyped. Go with prot if you like it, Ret is only for these who like 2hander stuff or these who want to speedlevel.

The rest of us can enjoy the game properly and still be 80 in two weeks.


Oh geez, get off your high horse. And how exactly is it more 'proper' to level as prot vs ret? Your snootiness is disgusting.

Anyway, after playing last night as Ret (post nerfs), it is still an unbelievable wrecking machine. The only 'significant' nerf was the conversion of Divine Storm from holy to physical damage which is a bummer, but not enough to gimp us at all (lol at the person who said it's 2.4 levels. just.....no). Just doing dailies last night, I was averaging 1300dps easily, and that's with welfare PVP gear. (look up Ukeiron on Bonechewer server if you want to see my armory, can't link it from work). I never run low on health or mana, mobs die in 5 seconds or less (had a few guildies ask "did you just one-shot that naga?" several times last night 8) ), and potential gankers give me a wiiiide berth now.

Oh, and I solo'd a Fel Reaver last night to finally get my Shattered Halls key :P

Ret is still overpowered at lvl 70 by a large margin even with the nerfs. However Blizz said that 3.0 is tuned for lvl 80 balance, and 70 will have some classes/specs be overpowered vs another for that reason.
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Postby ShaiHulud » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:08 am

halabar wrote:
Zalaria wrote:
Majiben wrote:
halabar wrote:so how is the horseman's blade?... :D
It's meh. It'll work if it's your first lvl 70 weapon but it has low stamina, only a little bit of agility for avoidance, and fairly low dps. It really is a blue quality item that's purple to get people excited.



Horseman's Blade

a "real" epic


Just because epics are from lower tiers doesn't mean they're not good.
Maybe it's not the best for us, but then again it wasn't designed for us!


Well, according to the spreadsheet, it's better than the S1 maces that I have, and in the mass of weapons that are a bit below the MGlad Slicer. I really don't want to grind out 27,000 honor again... and I'm not exactly getting into Hyjal pugs atm for that gear... so...


With the nerf to content go try out ZA. It's silly easy now. I had King's Defender for 3.0 and was pulling very nice threat with 750ish hammers unbuffed. I got a Heartless from Malacrass the other night and that upped my hammers to about 830-850ish dmg unbuffed. Try to grab that if you can.
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Postby Questioner » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:26 pm

I feel dirty not having specced prot since the patch, but honestly if you haven't tried ret, give it a go. I was ret for a couple raids before 3.0 as well as some pvp (most notably Brutallus kill...damn you pally taunt for being garbage!) but I was prot from 20 to 70 and Kara to Sunwell.

Ret right now is a blast. The biggest difference is you can heal yourself. I can pull multiple mobs at once as ret too you know. I still have ret aura and consecration, and divine storm puts out some serious hurt AND heals. Plus, if I get in trouble, I can use an AoW FoL, or even a HL with the pushback changes, all the while putting out some big numbers. I really feel like I am playing a paladin.

My highest crit is well OVER 9000. Have no idea when I got it though. :D
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Postby Bobness » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:19 am

In your standard BG's ret is still the most powerful killing machine even post nerf...

I can't speak for Arena, in raids ret's are also coming close or topping the DPS charts.

A Belf retri in AV took me from 17.5k health to dead in 30 seconds, this included lay on hands & Divine protection, as I picked my corpse up i noticed he had full health & almost full mana..


I was screaming nerf under my breath before i respecced for the evening.
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Postby Fenris » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:43 am

Bobness wrote:In your standard BG's ret is still the most powerful killing machine even post nerf...

Ever found an arcane mage messing around around a battleground?

Arcane barrage crits higher than divine storm (and by higher i mean much higher),ranged and with 3 sec cd

Just came out from an av where one critted me for 3300 as start,4200 3 sec later,and i had both guarded by light,Imp.RF on and 340 resilience.. :roll:
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Postby Macha » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:23 am

uke wrote:Oh geez, get off your high horse. And how exactly is it more 'proper' to level as prot vs ret? Your snootiness is disgusting.


It's cute, you're so hypocritical that you don't even notice that I was merely imitating the "it's stupid to not spec ret to level" notion that is very prevalent in this forum.

So, yes, your snootiness is indeed disgusting. ^^

In reality, the difference is slim between the specs. It's just hyped up due to PVP but over time ret isn't that much faster exactly because of how ret works in the real game.
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Postby lusisia » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:20 am

Fenris wrote:
Bobness wrote:In your standard BG's ret is still the most powerful killing machine even post nerf...

Ever found an arcane mage messing around around a battleground?

Arcane barrage crits higher than divine storm (and by higher i mean much higher),ranged and with 3 sec cd

Just came out from an av where one critted me for 3300 as start,4200 3 sec later,and i had both guarded by light,Imp.RF on and 340 resilience.. :roll:


Yeah but the biggest difference, and I keep thinking this every time someone trys to compare mage damage to ret damage at 70:

A mage can't stay ice blocked and cast arcane barrage.
A mage can't keep you polymorphed and still do arcane barrage damage.
AB is a channeled spell.

Compare with:

Bubble + DS
HoJ + DS
DS is instant
DS had no resistance.

And that's just talking about Divine Storm. Let's not even get into the judgements and consecrate and the sealed swings. And you can do all of that (sans sealed swings) while immune to damage.

Now let me say that I don't think ret was grossly overpowered but it's obvious that even at 80 without the 2H equip bug, ret was borderline.
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Postby uke » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:32 am

Macha wrote:
uke wrote:Oh geez, get off your high horse. And how exactly is it more 'proper' to level as prot vs ret? Your snootiness is disgusting.


It's cute, you're so hypocritical that you don't even notice that I was merely imitating the "it's stupid to not spec ret to level" notion that is very prevalent in this forum.

So, yes, your snootiness is indeed disgusting. ^^

In reality, the difference is slim between the specs. It's just hyped up due to PVP but over time ret isn't that much faster exactly because of how ret works in the real game.


Nice attempt at saving face there.

1. Not sure where you're getting your strawman "you're stupid for not leveling Ret" from. Pretty much everyone has said that prot is very viable for leveling, but the very real and undisputable fact remains that it still lags behind ret by a siginficant margin.

One method is good and fine. The other method is much much better. Again, this isn't really up to debate aside from personal preferences. If you want to stay prot, then you'll be successful. However if you ask what is quicker and more efficient, the factually correct answer is ret.

2. The 'get off your high horse' comment was directed to your "at least I'm going to level properly" remark, as if you couldn't be bothered to lower yourself from your high and mighty tanking spec. Arrogance, regardless of class or spec, grates me to no end, and your post was reeking with it.

You may say that you were just being tounge in cheek. However, the fact that I responded as I did means that you did a pretty poor job of conveying that (and I'm pretty good at spotting sarcasm/satire/etc). Maybe you should re-read what you wrote instead of assuming the problem is on someone else's end.
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Postby Bobness » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:39 am

uke wrote:
Macha wrote:
uke wrote:Oh geez, get off your high horse. And how exactly is it more 'proper' to level as prot vs ret? Your snootiness is disgusting.


It's cute, you're so hypocritical that you don't even notice that I was merely imitating the "it's stupid to not spec ret to level" notion that is very prevalent in this forum.

So, yes, your snootiness is indeed disgusting. ^^

In reality, the difference is slim between the specs. It's just hyped up due to PVP but over time ret isn't that much faster exactly because of how ret works in the real game.


Nice attempt at saving face there.

1. Not sure where you're getting your strawman "you're stupid for not leveling Ret" from. Pretty much everyone has said that prot is very viable for leveling, but the very real and undisputable fact remains that it still lags behind ret by a siginficant margin.

One method is good and fine. The other method is much much better. Again, this isn't really up to debate aside from personal preferences. If you want to stay prot, then you'll be successful. However if you ask what is quicker and more efficient, the factually correct answer is ret.

2. The 'get off your high horse' comment was directed to your "at least I'm going to level properly" remark, as if you couldn't be bothered to lower yourself from your high and mighty tanking spec. Arrogance, regardless of class or spec, grates me to no end, and your post was reeking with it.

You may say that you were just being tounge in cheek. However, the fact that I responded as I did means that you did a pretty poor job of conveying that (and I'm pretty good at spotting sarcasm/satire/etc). Maybe you should re-read what you wrote instead of assuming the problem is on someone else's end.


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Postby Levantine » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:50 am

QUICK, RET CAN KILL PEOPLE WHO SUCK NOW! NERF NERF NERF!
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Postby Ashmadai » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:11 am

In reality, the difference is slim between the specs.


Not that I care whatsoever what spec you level as, but I guarantee you I can kill 3 mobs for every 1 you kill as Prot spec.

It's not a slim difference in killing speed between the specs. More power to you if you prefer to stay Prot. I never specced anything but Prot a single time until well after I was fully epiced at 70 and just decided to play around with Ret and Holy, so I know where you're coming from. I think everybody will just be fine if they just spec however they want and not worry about what other people do. =P
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Postby Fenris » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:30 am

lusisia wrote:
Fenris wrote:
Bobness wrote:In your standard BG's ret is still the most powerful killing machine even post nerf...

Ever found an arcane mage messing around around a battleground?

Arcane barrage crits higher than divine storm (and by higher i mean much higher),ranged and with 3 sec cd

Just came out from an av where one critted me for 3300 as start,4200 3 sec later,and i had both guarded by light,Imp.RF on and 340 resilience.. :roll:


A mage can't stay ice blocked and cast arcane barrage.
A mage can't keep you polymorphed and still do arcane barrage damage.
AB is a channeled spell.

Compare with:

Bubble + DS
HoJ + DS
DS is instant
DS had no resistance.


Well,i know a direct comparison will never work fine,still the "tri-shotted" capability of both spec is pretty equal atm
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