Remove Advertisements

Weapon TPS Q.

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Weapon TPS Q.

Postby Precio » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:23 pm

I know I will most undoubtedly get flamed for this, but I haven't really been re-assured by this. The tooltip for HotR says: "...weapon Damage Per Second." So all the people saying a slow 1h** is our tanking weapon of choice may be wrong?

I think that a fast 1h, going by the tooltip, is better because it reapplies ur SoC/SoV faster. But I'd like some other input for this.

Fast or Slow? It does say damage per second.
Last edited by Precio on Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
12/14 Ulduar10 - 8/14 Ulduar25
Precio
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:18 am

Postby crabcrouton » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:24 pm

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53595

Requires 1-H weapon. Sorry =D
crabcrouton
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:10 am

Postby Precio » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:25 pm

crabcrouton wrote:http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53595

Requires 1-H weapon. Sorry =D


Mistake, meant for that to say 1h.
Image
12/14 Ulduar10 - 8/14 Ulduar25
Precio
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:18 am

Postby crabcrouton » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:27 pm

It doesn't matter, at all. I think it was either Psiven or Dorvan who mapped out the difference in applying 5 charges of SoV is very very short.

So far I've only seen 2 particularly slow tanking weapons in comparison to dozens of fast ones.
crabcrouton
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:10 am

Postby tullock » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:28 pm

Yes, the hotr mechanic was changed some few patches ago so that weapon speed has zero impact on damage output. If you have a 105 dps one hander thats 1.6 speed it will do exactly the same amount of hotr damage as a 105 dps 2.7 speed. If you look at the melee tab of our character shet, where it lists dps, you take that number and multiply it by 4 to get your hotr damage.
User avatar
tullock
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:11 pm

Postby Precio » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:33 pm

So, that could possibly come to show that for aoe tanking, fast 1h are better?
Image
12/14 Ulduar10 - 8/14 Ulduar25
Precio
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:18 am

Postby crabcrouton » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:36 pm

Now for AoE tanking, it's odd but you might wanna go with a caster spell power weapon. In AoE situations, the +SP will boost Consecrate damage to a higher extent than HotR because that's capped at 3 mobs.

For single target situations, one could make an argument that a slow tanking weapon is better. You don't lose out on anything but you do gain a lower amount of parry-hasted counterattacks. Personally I'm not one of the ones agreeing with this but I wanted to put that out there.
crabcrouton
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:10 am

Postby PsiVen » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:08 pm

Theoretically, a fast SP weapon would be ideal because you could use it to maintain more stacks of SoV than possible with slower weapons.

Practically speaking, nobody is going to bother meticulously tracking their SoV stacks on that many mobs at once so the benefit is nil. An SP weapon will be higher TPS for large packs of mobs but the expense of maintaining a situational SP weapon as high ilvl as your main tanking weapon is prohibitive.
Gladiator Psiven, 90 Tankadin
90 Druid, 90 Mage, 85 Monk, 85 DK, 70 War, 70 Pal, 60 Priest, 60 Lock, 64 Rogue
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest
User avatar
PsiVen
Moderator
 
Posts: 4362
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:28 pm
Location: On a Boat

Postby Toxi » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:36 pm

so.. what I'm hearing here is:

For 1-3 mobs we want a max-dps 1H
For packs, max spell damage

... amirite?
(AS+HS)PMS=GRRRLTank
User avatar
Toxi
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:28 pm

Postby Arquine » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:02 pm

Toxi wrote:so.. what I'm hearing here is:

For 1-3 mobs we want a max-dps 1H
For packs, max spell damage

... amirite?


correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe that concecrate will stack with both AP and Spell Power, so weapons with high base damage still overpowers weapons with.

but here's the thing, is threat really an issue now?

Speaking of threat, the 2 highest tps weapons according to PsiVen happen to be what seems to me a spirit based mace and mp5 based mace caster users. (I'm gonna go with last laugh though, the impossible dream and life and death are wasted on a tank, whilst Last Laugh has double the stamina gain and looking like a proper tank weapon).
Arquine
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:58 am

Postby Vanifae » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:13 pm

Get a high DPS physical weapon, the benefits to larger packs is not so huge that you will lose aggro dramatically, plus your overall DPS will be higher.

It can be slow or fast.
Last edited by Vanifae on Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is why I'm a humorless feminist. Because rape jokes killed my sense of humor.
Minnerva wrote:if you act like a jerk then we push you away unless when born the girl got slapped around by her father.
User avatar
Vanifae
 
Posts: 7123
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:36 am

Postby Drathian » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:14 pm

Arquine wrote:
Toxi wrote:so.. what I'm hearing here is:

For 1-3 mobs we want a max-dps 1H
For packs, max spell damage

... amirite?


correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe that concecrate will stack with both AP and Spell Power, so weapons with high base damage still overpowers weapons with.


You're right, except that all the tanking weapon will have is higher DPS, not AP.

That's why a spellpower weapon still wins out on AoE pulls, all that spellpower affects consecration.

The higher weapon DPS on a tanking weapon only affects white damage and HotR damage, which caps out at 3 targets.

Edit: That said, I agree with what Vanifae posted right above me while I was typing this. Use a tanking weapon. The loss in consecration AoE threat won't make or break the raid.
Image
Drathian
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:01 am

Postby Warcraft » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:54 pm

Vanifae wrote:Get a high DPS physical weapon, the benefits to larger packs is not so huge that you will lose aggro dramatically, plus your overall DPS will be higher.

Drathian wrote:Use a tanking weapon. The loss in consecration AoE threat won't make or break the raid.

That is a very poor perspective.

In any situation where AE tanking matters, the loss of Consecration threat is huge, because Consecration is pretty much your only threat. It does by far the most damage and none of your other, reactive threat even works unless Consecration stuck the targets to you in the first place.

In contrast, it is the 3-targets-or-less boost that you get from a high DPS weapon that is "not so huge." Other than (lol) white damage, the only ability a DPS weapon improves is Hammer of the Righteous which, while a staple, is far from our only threat generation tool against 3 targets or less.

Bottom line is that boycotting spell damage is only biting your nose to spite your face. You need two weapons if you want to be the best tank you can be, and you should have a spell power weapon anyway, for your off-sets.
User avatar
Warcraft
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:49 am

Postby PsiVen » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:16 pm

It is rather unusual to be tanking so many foes that Consecration is the only threat that matters. For example you are still contributing an average of 50% of your HotR damage to each target when you tank 6 mobs at once.

Weapons with tanking stats are never as good at TPS on ANY number of targets as an equal ilvl threat weapon! The Impossible Dream is a good 100 TPS beyond Red Sword of Courage (3800 vs 3700 TPS) single target. The difference from Consecration itself is a mere 41 TPS. So the gap actually shrinks as the number of targets increases, as all of the other abilities besides Consecration begin to diminish in importance.

Of course, relative and total threat will continue to have the same gap per target.
Gladiator Psiven, 90 Tankadin
90 Druid, 90 Mage, 85 Monk, 85 DK, 70 War, 70 Pal, 60 Priest, 60 Lock, 64 Rogue
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest
User avatar
PsiVen
Moderator
 
Posts: 4362
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:28 pm
Location: On a Boat

Postby Vanifae » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:54 pm

Warcraft wrote:In contrast, it is the 3-targets-or-less boost that you get from a high DPS weapon that is "not so huge." Other than (lol) white damage, the only ability a DPS weapon improves is Hammer of the Righteous which, while a staple, is far from our only threat generation tool against 3 targets or less.

Bottom line is that boycotting spell damage is only biting your nose to spite your face. You need two weapons if you want to be the best tank you can be, and you should have a spell power weapon anyway, for your off-sets.

My experience in-game says that you will have enough threat that you won't even notice. The hit is not large,a nd we have many tools to keep multi-target threat now.

I never said not to take spell damage, but really, in the best overall DPS/TPS scenario, physical high damage weapons are the way to go.
This is why I'm a humorless feminist. Because rape jokes killed my sense of humor.
Minnerva wrote:if you act like a jerk then we push you away unless when born the girl got slapped around by her father.
User avatar
Vanifae
 
Posts: 7123
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:36 am

Next

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest