How many tanks are needed in 3.0

Naj'entus, Supremus, Akama, Gorefiend, Gurtogg Bloodboil, RoS, Sharaz, Council, Illidan

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How many tanks are needed in 3.0

Postby dmok » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:38 am

Ok, my guild has an interesting dilemma ahead of us.

We have two (2) reliable tanks. Myself, and a druid.

Last night, we made it up to and killed gorefiend with only us 2 tanking. But we are looking to see Illidian dead before LK launches. What are our chances with only 2 tanks? We are going to be pushing to clear up to and including bloodboil tuesday, so we can work on what I think will be not-mindless fights like the first 4 at minimum were.

Are we absolutely required to have a warrior tank? What about FR gear for Illidian. Is it still mandatory? Neither me nor the druid have any (I have only been 70 for 2.5 months now. Haven't have badges to spare for FR gear).

I guess the same question goes for raid-wide SR gear for Shiraz. Do you think its zerg-able with nobody in SR gear? (or at minimum the SR cloak and optionally neck if we go back to get it, having never killed them pre-3.0)
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Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:47 am

You don't need a warrior tank.

You need however 3 tanks for most TBC encounters. You cannot possibly do Council and Illidan with 2.

Well, you can, it's like hard as hell, but you can.

If your DPS is good, you can kill shahraz with 0 SR atm.
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Postby dmok » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:54 am

Worldie wrote:You need however 3 tanks for most TBC encounters. You cannot possibly do Council and Illidan with 2.

I guess a followup to this: would having a ret paladin/dps warrior in t5 prot gear hold up as a third tank? Or is it a serious tank encounter. We are a very casual raiding guild, but if we must I dont see us having a problem paying one of them to respec prot for 2 fights at the top end of BT.

So far, even on progression, we've managed to make it through to supremus and archimonde with only 2 "tank" specced tanks with a single dps warrior/paladin putting on tank gear to help out with Azgalore (he'd run intercept, and I'd taunt off him to tank the doomguard).

If we do need someone who is late-t5 geared as a tank, we may have to try poaching ... but as a whole our server has been pretty lackluster progressionwise (I think only 1 guild has even killed illidian even now, with only a handful of others actually making headway into BT).



Oh, and since we need 3 tanks for Illidian ... is FR still a requirement for the flame tanks?
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Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:07 am

The rogue and Priest on council hit like sissies, as long as they got a semi-decent tank gear they can tank em.

For illidan it's about fire resistance on flames, not general gear.

We tried doing with flame tanks without FR, they were spiking a crapton. It's doable but requires heavy overgearing. At least full badge FR gear is what you need. Nothing more tbh, that is enough.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

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Postby dmok » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:11 am

Worldie wrote:For illidan it's about fire resistance on flames, not general gear.

We tried doing with flame tanks without FR, they were spiking a crapton. It's doable but requires heavy overgearing. At least full badge FR gear is what you need. Nothing more tbh, that is enough.

Thanks Worldie.

I guess we'll be pushing some of our tanks through kara these next 2 weeks to get the FR set for Illidian then.
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Postby Dendrah » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:20 am

I've seen our DPS warrior tank the rogue on council and a flame on Illidan.

It can be done. Maybe an extra healer will make things easier for you. You have after all 30% less HP to get down now.
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Postby knaughty » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:29 am

A DPS-spec warrior in full badge FR gear can tank a flame. In decent tanking gear, the rogue or the priest would be fine - priest is mostly spell-damage, and I mostly tanked it without even speccing into spell-damage-reduction talents. DPS warrior in defensive on priest would be fine.

I have tanked both rogue and priest at council when the other tank died 20 seconds in, but it's sketchy as hell, and we did eventually wipe a few minute later (to other issues).

That said, you'll definitely want an extra tank or two for 25s in Wrath. Two tanks is perfect for 10s though.
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Postby Dapaladin » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:15 am

Worldie wrote:The rogue and Priest on council hit like sissies, as long as they got a semi-decent tank gear they can tank em.

For illidan it's about fire resistance on flames, not general gear.

We tried doing with flame tanks without FR, they were spiking a crapton. It's doable but requires heavy overgearing. At least full badge FR gear is what you need. Nothing more tbh, that is enough.


Killed illidan the other night with one of the flame tanks wearing 0 FR...

Mind you his avoidance was high because he was pretty much decked in the best gear in the game but... I think their damage got nerfed
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Postby Elsie » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:48 am

if a warrior is in FR then he's a tank, regardless of spec.

Anyway, there's no reason a tank can't be in 50/50 FR/normal and tank the first flame anymore. A warrior could feasibly do 270 FR and tank illidan before the patch if he was overgeared. You could've also used a rogue to tank illidan (concession given for actual dps gearing) before 3.0.

Council could always be done with 2 tanks. Misdirect would really help, though.

Now in 3.0 you can probably get away with no resist except a little FR.
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Postby dmok » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:58 am

Keep in mind that we have only downed Naj before 3.0 hit, but made it as far as Azgalor in Hyjal prior to that. We pretty much only have 2 tanks geared above t5. But if the badge FR gear is enough, we could always get the BS FR gear crafted and make up the rest somewhere else.

For LK I don't see a problem getting more than 2 tanks, but for now we don't have any that are geared for the content we are trying to finish before it's too late.
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Postby Elsie » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:45 pm

dmok wrote:Keep in mind that we have only downed Naj before 3.0 hit, but made it as far as Azgalor in Hyjal prior to that. We pretty much only have 2 tanks geared above t5. But if the badge FR gear is enough, we could always get the BS FR gear crafted and make up the rest somewhere else.

For LK I don't see a problem getting more than 2 tanks, but for now we don't have any that are geared for the content we are trying to finish before it's too late.

Get more badge gear, it's == t6 and 1 piece per day isn't hard now.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:45 pm

Just to get you a idea, we killed Illidan today with the warrior using crafted gear (270ish FR, 490 def) and the paladin with partially badge gear (220 FR, 495 def).

The warrior did actually die due to graphic lag (well, i told him to set graphic to non-existant but he forgot ;) ) then i taunted the flame at 20%, and tanked it for 20-30 seconds with 70 FR (aura)... did i mention <3 bubblewall?
Anyway, just get 200ish FR unbuffed on the 2 tanks and they'll be fine with healers just constantly spamming max ranks.
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Postby sanctifico » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:08 pm

Worldie wrote:Just to get you a idea, we killed Illidan today with the warrior using crafted gear (270ish FR, 490 def) and the paladin with partially badge gear (220 FR, 495 def).

The warrior did actually die due to graphic lag (well, i told him to set graphic to non-existant but he forgot ;) ) then i taunted the flame at 20%, and tanked it for 20-30 seconds with 70 FR (aura)... did i mention <3 bubblewall?
Anyway, just get 200ish FR unbuffed on the 2 tanks and they'll be fine with healers just constantly spamming max ranks.


Guess you didnt get into Sunwell this week Worldie?
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Postby Worldie » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:42 am

It was the first week of raiding, we did't even plan them.

We should be trying sunwell this sunday if we get a balanced raid with at least 3/4 of them being t6+
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby sanctifico » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:02 am

Fair enough, Paramount beat us to KJ :(

And now im bored sitting out for Brut, even though i need the neck :(
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