Dual Spec Ghostcrawler post

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Bk992004 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:05 pm

Spectrum wrote:I'm still against this sort of thing because it removes some of the individuality of characters.

Having a spec that is hard to change means that you have to plan ahead and chose carefully what you want to do, perhaps being sub-optimal at two things so you can be decent at both.



So if I have a raid at 8PM but our arena team needs to knock out our games this week I should be crap in both or only successful in 1? Is that really what you mean?

You may have enough free time, or have life go so perfectly your schedule never gets thrown off, and such such congrats. Most of us, though, don't have enough time to schedule everything over multiple days, let alone being able to forsee late nights at work, sick kids, etc...
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Postby Bk992004 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:09 pm

EvilNuff wrote:The thing that worries me about this is the pure dps classes. They really don't get the same benefit out of this. And honestly if you're forming a pug raid with one slot left for dps and you see a Rogue and Pally both looking, they have comparable gear when you armory them...you'll take the pally 100% of the time and it won't even be a question. Because he'll have a tank or heal offspec this literally makes pure dps classes 2nd class citizens. I literally know zero people with Rogues as mains who plan to keep a Rogue as main at 80.



So whereas ret pallies and non-healer shamen got left out before b/c they couldn't hang with the rogues, now the rogues and other pure DPS classes are left out for a bit and wanna gripe about it? Boohoo. Pure DPS classes have had the spotlight for years, now they can share.
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Postby Sheherezade » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:39 am

Bk992004 wrote:
EvilNuff wrote:The thing that worries me about this is the pure dps classes. They really don't get the same benefit out of this. And honestly if you're forming a pug raid with one slot left for dps and you see a Rogue and Pally both looking, they have comparable gear when you armory them...you'll take the pally 100% of the time and it won't even be a question. Because he'll have a tank or heal offspec this literally makes pure dps classes 2nd class citizens. I literally know zero people with Rogues as mains who plan to keep a Rogue as main at 80.



So whereas ret pallies and non-healer shamen got left out before b/c they couldn't hang with the rogues, now the rogues and other pure DPS classes are left out for a bit and wanna gripe about it? Boohoo. Pure DPS classes have had the spotlight for years, now they can share.


Sharing? If you have 2 dps guys/gals that want to come to the raid and do equal dps, do you bring the one that does dps, or the one that can dps and respec healing halfway through on that raiddamage-heavy fight?

this is their worry, not that that they will have hybrids dpsing alongside them, but that they actually replace them...
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Postby Levantine » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:43 am

There's not going to be respeccing in combat of any kind, so it's a pointless argument.
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Postby Sheherezade » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:46 am

I was talking about between fights
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Postby majiben » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:53 am

Levantine wrote:There's not going to be respeccing in combat of any kind, so it's a pointless argument.
There's talk about respecing out of combat anywhere with a very short cooldown. I can see the valid concern. It can go something like this:

Your raid has just finished wiping to naj's tidal wave again because your healers simply can't get people back up fast enough. The raid leader calls out for your boomkin to go resto on the fly so your raid has a better shot of downing him. Had you brought another hunter in the boomkin's place you wouldn't have had this option.

It's a valid concern but I doubt it will be a huge issue when there is 15+ dps spots and only 1-2 wold need to be able to spec healing on the fly if at all.
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Postby Levantine » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:04 am

Sheherezade wrote:Sharing? If you have 2 dps guys/gals that want to come to the raid and do equal dps, do you bring the one that does dps, or the one that can dps and respec healing halfway through on that raiddamage-heavy fight?


Apparently I misread your post.
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Postby Sheherezade » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:09 am

Levantine wrote:
Sheherezade wrote:Sharing? If you have 2 dps guys/gals that want to come to the raid and do equal dps, do you bring the one that does dps, or the one that can dps and respec healing halfway through on that raiddamage-heavy fight?


Apparently I misread your post.


no, it was I that wrote it badly, lol

Sharing? If you have 2 dps guys/gals that want to come to the raid and do equal dps, do you bring the one that does dps, or the one that can dps and respec healing halfway through the instance for that raiddamage-heavy fight?

now it's correct! :)
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Postby Sheherezade » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:12 am

Majiben wrote:
Levantine wrote:There's not going to be respeccing in combat of any kind, so it's a pointless argument.
There's talk about respecing out of combat anywhere with a very short cooldown. I can see the valid concern. It can go something like this:

Your raid has just finished wiping to naj's tidal wave again because your healers simply can't get people back up fast enough. The raid leader calls out for your boomkin to go resto on the fly so your raid has a better shot of downing him. Had you brought another hunter in the boomkin's place you wouldn't have had this option.

It's a valid concern but I doubt it will be a huge issue when there is 15+ dps spots and only 1-2 wold need to be able to spec healing on the fly if at all.


I think it's more of a issue for rogues though, since there are potentially 3 healing hybrids that can go melee, plus warriors that can go fury, and now DKs as well...

rogues can only do dps, not heal, not tank, and you tend to bring less melee dps than ranged dps to a fight...(atleast we always do)
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Postby Grimmal » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:36 am

You can't blame the system because a very small percentage of the playerbase will min/max so much that they leave players behind for hybrids. Most people will take this and run with it the way Blizzard means it to be used. That is to say they will have multiple specs for what it is needed and so that when you are trying to get together for that 5/10/25 you can just ask somebody to respec if needed.

Personally if I was forming a 10 man and was missing a tank/healer/dps, I'll take whomever I can get with the only preference being to try and not double up on class if at all possible. They said what they wanted to happen and that's for people to invite the player not the class. Don't fault the system because some people care more for a shiny new pixels than they do in hanging out with friends for the sack of their being friends.

If the pure DPS classes are getting left out of raids after this change, they need to be looking for guilds where they are actually wanted. Blizzard is doing everything they can to get away from the mentality here, after that it's up to the playerbase.
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Postby Sheherezade » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:52 am

I'll be raiding with my friends, as i have always done, new and old friends...but I will also be raiding knowing that I bring something to the raid, that I make a difference, I don't want to be thinking that "another class could have done more". (well, Im not a rogue anymore so...)

just as long as blizzard balances it well it's ok...
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Postby Vioarr » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:42 am

Sheherezade wrote:
Majiben wrote:
Levantine wrote:There's not going to be respeccing in combat of any kind, so it's a pointless argument.
There's talk about respecing out of combat anywhere with a very short cooldown. I can see the valid concern. It can go something like this:

Your raid has just finished wiping to naj's tidal wave again because your healers simply can't get people back up fast enough. The raid leader calls out for your boomkin to go resto on the fly so your raid has a better shot of downing him. Had you brought another hunter in the boomkin's place you wouldn't have had this option.

It's a valid concern but I doubt it will be a huge issue when there is 15+ dps spots and only 1-2 wold need to be able to spec healing on the fly if at all.


I think it's more of a issue for rogues though, since there are potentially 3 healing hybrids that can go melee, plus warriors that can go fury, and now DKs as well...

rogues can only do dps, not heal, not tank, and you tend to bring less melee dps than ranged dps to a fight...(atleast we always do)


A good raid leader knows the viability of a Rogue in the group. Slowing down/stopping casts is usually better than having to heal them afterward.
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Postby Zironic » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:45 am

Vioarr wrote:A good raid leader knows the viability of a Rogue in the group. Slowing down/stopping casts is usually better than having to heal them afterward.

Hybrid interupts:
Earthshock
Pummel
hammer of justice

However it seems you need a "pure" class for the slow, however that doesn't need to be a rogue, a deep arcane mage or any flavor of warlock can do it aswell (The mage does it rather badly because of the mana cost of slow).
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Postby phaqueue » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:49 am

On the whole Main Spec gear vs off-spec gear...

With friends - we usually will pass to whomever could use it - or for specs that people normally use...

with pugs - if I can and intend to use it - it's fair game.. don't care what spec I am - and I basically expect other people to do the same...

the nice part about the group of people that I run with is that we really couldn't care less about gear... yes - it's nice to get upgrades... but if you get outrolled - it will always drop again...

seems like a much better way to look at it... we run the instances cause we enjoy hanging out - not just for gear... gear is just a nice added bonus :)
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Postby Vioarr » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:19 am

Zironic wrote:
Vioarr wrote:A good raid leader knows the viability of a Rogue in the group. Slowing down/stopping casts is usually better than having to heal them afterward.

Hybrid interupts:
Earthshock
Pummel
hammer of justice

However it seems you need a "pure" class for the slow, however that doesn't need to be a rogue, a deep arcane mage or any flavor of warlock can do it aswell (The mage does it rather badly because of the mana cost of slow).


And what about the poisons to slow cast time, healing effect, etc?

I don't think that Rogues have too much to worry about. In 25 man raids there is going to be room for many classes. I would think that Rogues would be happiest about this update, because from what I know (my friend is one, admittedly I don't know much about them) PVE and PVP specs are extremely different, and many don't like to raid because they have to pay to swap.
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