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judge of light still bugged?

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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:05 am

I ran an achievements raid yesterday, cutting through some older tbc and pre tbc content.

When I switched to JoW as I was having mana issues (even in mail retri gear I just wasn't taking damage), I had to keep an eye on the holy paladin who began covering light. He ended up tanking on Ossirian after the first winds.

As funny as it is to see the really rather bizarre threat it puts out, imagine it from the perspective of the other two paladin specs. A really powerful raid ability that you can't use whenever its most helpful.
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Postby Zironic » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:18 am

ziggyunderslashone wrote:I ran an achievements raid yesterday, cutting through some older tbc and pre tbc content.

When I switched to JoW as I was having mana issues (even in mail retri gear I just wasn't taking damage), I had to keep an eye on the holy paladin who began covering light. He ended up tanking on Ossirian after the first winds.

As funny as it is to see the really rather bizarre threat it puts out, imagine it from the perspective of the other two paladin specs. A really powerful raid ability that you can't use whenever its most helpful.


Why didn't you use blessing of sanctuary?
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Postby majiben » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:21 am

Zironic wrote:
ziggyunderslashone wrote:I ran an achievements raid yesterday, cutting through some older tbc and pre tbc content.

When I switched to JoW as I was having mana issues (even in mail retri gear I just wasn't taking damage), I had to keep an eye on the holy paladin who began covering light. He ended up tanking on Ossirian after the first winds.

As funny as it is to see the really rather bizarre threat it puts out, imagine it from the perspective of the other two paladin specs. A really powerful raid ability that you can't use whenever its most helpful.


Why didn't you use blessing of sanctuary?
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:24 am

Oh I was. Main problem was bosses, I'd burn through a bar before they fell then try to hit up the three packs that people were pulling with bladestorm.
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Postby Katerina » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:27 am

I'm sure they'll fix it sooner or later.

But on the note of finding joy in the whole thing....

Warriors and bears can AoE tank trash now just as easily as we can. And good luck keeping up with a pally on threat any boss that does much raid damage. :)

My priest's guild bought a 4/5 cleared MH last night to score some easy t6 helms and get achievements for alts... JoL on Archi is pretty nuts. Bet it is even sicker on Azgalor. Didn't think I'd ever say this, but I'm hoping my pally's guild does a full clear MH again.
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:32 am

Issue will be, that if they remove the threat from JoL, we will be 3rd rate on threat.

In equivalent gear at 70, and probably all the way to 75, we will generate less single target threat than a warrior or druid.

That is patently unacceptable.

Our single target mitigation is relatively close, but not superior to either class, and our hp pool is definitely lower now. And we definitely have less emergency buttons.

Are you all arguing that we should, in every way, be slightly less effective than our tanking brethren?
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Postby Salamandra » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 am

My threat was better than similarish geared warriors and druids I've been going with when I was using JoW. JoL + raid damage just made it way higher.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:57 am

Garath.Gorefiend wrote:Issue will be, that if they remove the threat from JoL, we will be 3rd rate on threat.

I've really not had this issue. In fact I've pulled mobs off of similar geared warriors while offtanking with JoW, which personally I feel is acceptable.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:18 am

Garath.Gorefiend wrote:Issue will be, that if they remove the threat from JoL, we will be 3rd rate on threat.

In equivalent gear at 70, and probably all the way to 75, we will generate less single target threat than a warrior or druid.

That is patently unacceptable.

Our single target mitigation is relatively close, but not superior to either class, and our hp pool is definitely lower now. And we definitely have less emergency buttons.

Are you all arguing that we should, in every way, be slightly less effective than our tanking brethren?
Since when is JoL threat a considerable part of our threat gen? It's never been accounted for nor balanced around. They will fix JoL's threat, and guess what, our threat gen will remain good.

When we produce 6k* tps, 4k** are from jol, you know? but those other 2k** are what every tank is getting.



*arbitrary number
*moar arbitrary numberz
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:50 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
Garath.Gorefiend wrote:Issue will be, that if they remove the threat from JoL, we will be 3rd rate on threat.

In equivalent gear at 70, and probably all the way to 75, we will generate less single target threat than a warrior or druid.

That is patently unacceptable.

Our single target mitigation is relatively close, but not superior to either class, and our hp pool is definitely lower now. And we definitely have less emergency buttons.

Are you all arguing that we should, in every way, be slightly less effective than our tanking brethren?
Since when is JoL threat a considerable part of our threat gen? It's never been accounted for nor balanced around. They will fix JoL's threat, and guess what, our threat gen will remain good.

When we produce 6k* tps, 4k** are from jol, you know? but those other 2k** are what every tank is getting.



*arbitrary number
*moar arbitrary numberz


I have no problem with them 'fixing' the threat from JoL.

My concern, is that 'good' will not be good enough.

Currently, if I judge light, we are great.

If I judge wisdom, we are about on par.

If I judge justice, the warrior will catch up to me on the threat meter...

Assuming they fix incoming threat from other players based on JoL, then I assume some affect on incoming threat on JoW.

Then all our threat will be like it is from judging justice...we will then be in the 'not good enough' category and stay that way till we get Shield.

Based on other balancing moves from Blizzard, that is my concern.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:59 am

You sure of what you are talking?

Also you forgot this simple detail: We don't have ShoR yet.
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Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:12 am

Snake-Aes wrote:Also you forgot this simple detail: We don't have 30% of our threat before 5 more levels.


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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:16 am

Snake-Aes wrote:You sure of what you are talking?

Also you forgot this simple detail: We don't have ShoR yet.


I believe I stated 'till we get Shield'

We will not get ShoR till 75...

Warriors and druids have ALL their threat moves at 70, we don't.

Keep in mind, some of us want to be tanking instances on the grind to level 80 and see no reason why our threat should be sup-par to other tanks at any point during that grind.

I am prot, have always been prot, and have no interest in the other paladin specs.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:21 am

Garath.Gorefiend wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:You sure of what you are talking?

Also you forgot this simple detail: We don't have ShoR yet.


I believe I stated 'till we get Shield'

We will not get ShoR till 75...

Warriors and druids have ALL their threat moves at 70, we don't.

Keep in mind, some of us want to be tanking instances on the grind to level 80 and see no reason why our threat should be sup-par to other tanks at any point during that grind.

I am prot, have always been prot, and have no interest in the other paladin specs.
I ran bt and a ton of heroics last week. Having a threat issue were as likely as me not liking girls.

Wherever there was threat competition(bb), I still rocked it, tanked most of the tankable fight, and no dps came as close as 80% of my threat on any other boss.
And I judged Wisdom.
If you frankly have a problem with judging our most used judgment for farm content, because "we're just competitive" with it, then you have a different problem.

Our threat is op. With JoJ we are *just* behind other tanks, and they won't get as much of a threat boost on the way to 80 as we will.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:22 am

how will having marginally lower (in your opinion) threat than other tanks, yet still massively higher threat than dps effect 5 man instance grinding?
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