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Sunwell in 3.0.2 (TL;DR: Nerfwell)

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Io.Draco » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:19 pm

Well my guild did BT and SWP till twins today , after 1 month or so of no raiding ( had killed M'uru though )

We one shotted everything in BT , save council where mage just failed for 2 times and illidan where 1 time lock tank died ( newb healers ) and second time of a unlucky eyebeam ..

One shotted Kalecgos , Brutallus and 3 shotted Felmyst , would have been one shot if a fucking warlock had not been Mind controled and aoe feared the whole raid in the MC breath

On the third try our hunters forgot to MD her , and she landed and killed a mage ( newb dps who hit her before she goes for the tank ) so I grabbed her before she started rapping the raid and tanked her lol , not my idea of tanking her , I actualy refused to tank her to give the warrior a bit more fun to do in the fight :P

Piss easy in any case , Twins will be interesting though
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Postby knaughty » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:50 pm

We did finally get KJ after multiple under 10% wipes. Some our fault, some the server's. Our second entire raid night was basically wiped out by lag / DCs / emergency maintenance.

Getting KJ to 30% is the easy bit. 30% to 15% is the hard bit.... freaking mental. Any guild past Brute will probably get KJ, if they're willing to really work at it. KJ is still hard for people who haven't seen him. Two to three nights for most, I would think.

After KJ died (server second, damn alliance moved their raid night from Sat to Friday or we'd have been racing) we went and did BT, in like.. 90 mins with 20-ish people?

We didn't have a lock tank - locks all went to bed. Got to Illidan, said "meh, hunter X, you do it". He was like "WUT?!", and I was like "INC!".

We didn't have any demon phases, or any eye-beams, he died too fast to do either....
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Postby Io.Draco » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:52 pm

Whats the hard part from 30% to 15%?
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Postby Markoh » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:58 pm

At 25% he enrages, for lack of a better word, does a little speech and then uses his moves on supercooldowns. Can't say for now since I havn't done him since patch but before there were meteors flying EVERYWHERE along with constant collapses for darkness. Also compounding the problem is you don't have lusts b/c you blew them on the 55-25% phase b/c that was the dps check part.

It doesn't get comfortable until you have had lots of experience with raid collapsing/meteor dodging.
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Postby knaughty » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:59 pm

Io.Draco wrote:Whats the hard part from 30% to 15%?

The final collapse with meteors raining down and fire-bloom a bajillion people. Combined with the final set of reflections. All at once.

This is at least partly an artifact of the exact speed we're killing him at combining with his timers, but I expect most "KJ past 3.0.2" guilds will have DPS rougly similar to ours - we were working on M'uru, but didn't quite have the DPS to get him down.

That particular level of DPS (in 2.4 killed Brute but not M'uru) is going to be a very common gear level for 3.0.2 KJ first attempts. There's a huge pool of 3-4/6 Sunwell guilds (like mine), all geared roughly equal.

That gear level makes for the 55-25 phase being very exiting, especially the transition to P5 and clearing it up. Raid damage under 20% for the collapses is monumental. We had to bring four CoH priests to get the kill.
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Postby Morganim » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:14 pm

30% - 0% was instant kill time pre 3.0

if you made it through p4 with only 2 or so dead you won. with the lack of orbs that final phase was cake.

55% to 30% was the hard part of the fight pre-3.0 although now the whole things a joke
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Postby knaughty » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:26 pm

Morganim wrote:30% - 0% was instant kill time pre 3.0

if you made it through p4 with only 2 or so dead you won. with the lack of orbs that final phase was cake.

55% to 30% was the hard part of the fight pre-3.0 although now the whole things a joke

We actually find the collapse dance and the meteor dodging the harder part, almost certainly due to lack of practice. It's pretty clear that pre-nerf, getting those perfect would have been far more of a challenge, and pretty much mandatory before being able to make real progress.

Orbs just require DPS to be awake and prompt to kill them before they kill you.

I think the rest of the "ZOMG 30% sucks" issue is cooldowns lining up. We get tend to get everything at once between 30% and 25%.

Oh, and while I'm sure it's a joke for guilds that were killing him in 2.4, he's hard for "Brute to M'uru" Sunwell guilds who are killing him now. But I can see what it may be like for the Sunwell farmers. We went back and did Illidan after KJ died, and he skipped half his phases:

• P1: I had to move out of one flame circle, then he flew up. No parasites.
• P2: No eyebeams, elementals died too fast.
• P3: One parasite? maybe none?
• P4: Didn't happen, no demon phase, just Shadow Prison.
• P5: No enrage phase, never got to it, just died.

Utterly trivial for us. Probably still pretty challenging for 4/5; 4/9 guilds seeing him for the first time after getting 5 other progression kills in a week.

Psiven's been saying that his guild is prob going to manage next week with zero darkness phases.... That would be the equivalent of our Illidan.

Annoyingly, while we got the server first M'uru kill, the nubliance guild got server-first KJ by sneaking in an extra raid night on Friday instead of racing us fair and square :twisted:
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Postby Io.Draco » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:34 pm

If your doing race go there every day lolz :P

Anyway can't wait to get to him this week heh
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Postby knaughty » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:39 pm

Io.Draco wrote:If your doing race go there every day lolz :P


Neither guild normally runs on Friday, and the Nubliance said they wouldn't do an extra day.

My guild is mostly "Gen X" - mid-to-late 20s, mostly 30+, lots married, several with kids. And we're only about 35 active members. Basically impossible to organise an extra raid day on 18 hour's notice, too many people will be unable to make it.
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Postby Morganim » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:54 am

As you said some of the real challenges on KJ was that timers would totaly synch up at 55% a little and at 30% it was every single timer going off at once, just due to blizzard matching raid dps and the timers PERFECTLY.

now with 3.0 dps the timers are much easier to dodge
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Postby Joanadark » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:56 am

TH, my old guild, got KJ down 2.5 hours after first seeing him.
Muru and Kj both dropped for them tonite for the first time.

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Postby knaughty » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:09 am

Morganim wrote:As you said some of the real challenges on KJ was that timers would totaly synch up at 55% a little and at 30% it was every single timer going off at once, just due to blizzard matching raid dps and the timers PERFECTLY.

now with 3.0 dps the timers are much easier to dodge

I wish :roll:

Well, not really, it's nice that it's a challenge.
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Postby Markoh » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:46 am

Morganim wrote:30% - 0% was instant kill time pre 3.0

if you made it through p4 with only 2 or so dead you won. with the lack of orbs that final phase was cake.

55% to 30% was the hard part of the fight pre-3.0 although now the whole things a joke


Saying 30-0 was an instant kill is a little overkill. The first couple times you get to p5 stuff does happen that can easily wipe a raid, plus compounding the problem is everyone saying that its a free kill.

Our first time there people bought into this free kill theory and didn't take it seriously enough and wiped. After you get experience in it a couple times it was easy, though none of that matters now b/c the phase is so short it's nothing like it used to be.
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Postby Splug » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:54 am

Knaughty wrote:We didn't have a lock tank - locks all went to bed. Got to Illidan, said "meh, hunter X, you do it". He was like "WUT?!", and I was like "INC!".

We didn't have any demon phases, or any eye-beams, he died too fast to do either....
Heh, we've actually had hunters tank him in 2.4. It's not any different, though we DID have to remind them not to react to "AGGRO" with feigning...

I've also tanked Illidan's demon once when our warlock died. It worked- but I really, really don't recommend it. That aura sucks, even if you DO pull out at 3 stacks and wait for it to fade... and a shadow demon targetting me would have been unstoppable.

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Postby Elsie » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:09 pm

I tanked him demon-form pre-nerf in normal tanking gear. I'm not sure what the problem was where you needed a warlock in SR gear. Much simpler to just have 1 tank.

Basically, when he goes down you blow your entire rotation and leave a consecrate up. Run away, exorcism, avenger's shield, maybe try to get a judgment in on the way out...
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