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judge of light still bugged?

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judge of light still bugged?

Postby steadypal » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:27 am

just wondering cause im still seeing alot of threat thrown out. is it hotfixed yet? or working as intended now?
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Postby Lore » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:15 pm

It's probably not working as intended, and it's also probably not something they can hotfix.
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Postby Zironic » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:53 pm

technically it is working as intended as in, they wanted this sort of thing to happen in general. I think they just didn't think it through properly.

For example they wanted power word shield to give credit and threat to the priest, they wanted earth shield to give credit and threat to the shaman etc etc. Judgment of Light probably just came with those general mechanics that credits the caster.

If they think it's an issue they'll probably just lower the threat from JoL healing.
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:55 pm

Frankly, I have no problem with this...kind of nice to be the ones that can push the highest threat for a change...
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Postby Io.Draco » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:56 pm

I don't think its a bug bur rather intended

Our threat can go sky high yes , but seriously dps have no way of catching to the tanks now , so does it matter?
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Postby PsiVen » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:01 pm

3k TPS from JoL procs is not intended, no matter how far they've already buffed tank threat.
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Postby Io.Draco » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:06 pm

PsiVen wrote:3k TPS from JoL procs is not intended, no matter how far they've already buffed tank threat.


When druids and warriors can keep threat as off tanks way better then us? , even with my OMG JoL the warrior and druid in raid tonight didn't have a problem catching up on bloodboil

And tanks will be judged by their dps now not threat seriously..

Also its not 3k threat per second , if your healers have a fucking brain seriously

Even on felmyst wich does a shitload of aoe dmg I didn't do the number you talk of

You know im starting to realize why Blizzard kept paladins the shitiest class as long as they did

They buffed us MASSIVELY now , I would have expected some peace on these forums after all the changes , but NO


Only more whines , whine whine whine whine , thats all these forums are about now , yes its constructive , and it does adress some real issues I agree

BUT FOR FUCK SAKE LOOK AT START OF TBC AND WHERE WE ARE NOW , then realize we are very much fine now

Just be damn happy ....
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Postby knaughty » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:16 pm

As people have said:
It isn't a bug, exactly.

(1) Blizzard changed proc based heals to give healing credit (and threat) to the person doing the heal. So PoM, Earth-shield, etc, all give threat to the healer.

(2) JoL is a relatively powerful heal in a 25-man, because there is often a lot of raid damage flying around, and about 15 people DPSing the boss and procing the heal. Straight after 3.0.2 I was vying for first on the heal meter. It has since been halved, but still produces about "half a healer" worth of healing under the right circumstances.

(3) All our threat modifiers apply, so instead of "less than 0.5 threat per heal" we get "almost 1.4 threat per heal".

Is it good?
Not in my opinion. Several problems:

Problem 1: Either are threat is balanced based on JoL threat or it isn't. This leads to two options:

(1) If threat is balanced based on JoL threat, then our threat will be (way) too low when JoL threat is poor. JoL produces poor threat when there are multiple mobs up, when DPS aren't on your target or when there isn't a lot of raid damage.

(2) JoL threat is "balanced in". Our TPS is retardedly high under certain circumstances.

Problem 2: Uncontrollable raid-wide TPS.

There are plenty of circumstances where you don't want to generate a a couple of thousand TPS on every mob that's up. Example: At Twins, if you're tanking the first Twin and judging light, you're also generating a lot of threat on the second twin. Once first twin is dead, if you judge light on the second twin, you're in danger of peeling the second twin off the ranged tank, which will wipe the raid (speaking from experience there....)

I see potential issues at 4-horseman - you might accidentally peel the 2nd melee horseman off the other tank during the tank switch and end up with both...

Felmyst? RoS P2? I hope you were planning to MT, because if you judge light, you're going to tank regardless...

Having Ret judge it instead is not a great solution - just means you have a DPS who will be threat capped that much sooner than all other specs.

I really think that JoL needs to do zero threat.
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Postby Io.Draco » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:22 pm

Felmyst? RoS P2? I hope you were planning to MT, because if you judge light, you're going to tank regardless...


Uhm no , just judge it then wait a few second then go all in , is np..
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Postby Dawnseeker » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:23 pm

The threat from it has been very much welcomed, but yeah... uncontrollable raid-wide threat, not something that's always ideal.
I think if they just changed it to only generate threat vs the mob wit hthe JoL debuff, I'd be just as happy as I am now.
Ofc my co-tank (a feral druid) says JoL generating threat is sick and wrong (after I accidentally stole Naj'entus off him and almost hit 5k tps for a short duration on Supremus... oops)
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Postby Worldie » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:24 pm

Knaughty wrote:RoS P2? I hope you were planning to MT, because if you judge light, you're going to tank regardless...

Pff i found this out today, srsly fun thing ;)

Not like we were really needing deaden anyway, but still :D
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Postby knaughty » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:34 pm

Io.Draco wrote:
PsiVen wrote:3k TPS from JoL procs is not intended, no matter how far they've already buffed tank threat.


Also its not 3k threat per second , if your healers have a fucking brain seriously.

To use your language for a moment..

OMG if you could fucking tank you'd easily do 6k TPS at Felmyst, I did. U R A Noob! SRS!

So how about you stow the language and attitude?

My healers have a brain. JoL procs extremely rapidly on melee and it soaks up a lot of healing. I have an actual parse from Sunwell first night in where pre-nerf JoL did 3,250 threat... sustained. My Peak TPS as "lol-prot-DPS-in-BV-gear" was over 6000 TPS. Tier 6.5 tanks cannot generate 6k threat, so I peeled felmyst off the MT twice. Still a one-shot, but anyway... shit mechanic.
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:43 pm

Come on, its not uncontrollable.

Frankly, I find it handy as all hell...

Face it, in order to generate this extra threat, we lose out on a bit of damage, cant judge wisdom, etc...

Its a good tool...if I want my threat to be over the top, I judge light...if I want it to be lower I am judging wisdom or justice...

ALL GOOD
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Postby Io.Draco » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:49 pm

Uhm ye sry didn't realize you where talking of pre nerf JoL

But im curios do you have data of after the nerf to it on Felmyst? I did her today and I got nowhere near your numbers with JoL , so get your numbers straight
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Postby Shainey » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:03 pm

Well considering he said
I have an actual parse from Sunwell first night in where pre-nerf JoL did 3,250 threat... sustained

And the hotfix halving JoL procs, it would make sense that your numbers are nowhere near his.
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