TPS too high? -edit- JoL gives a few thousand TPS!

[Jikozani]

I'm going to assume the only way this is possible is if the heals caused by JoL are not affected by the threat modifier on healing spells.

Heals usually only cause .5 threat for each point healed. Paladin heals only cause .25 threat per point healed. Unless this has changed? It's been a while since I actively looked it up, but this was pretty well accepted.

So from what I can figure from the numbers being posted here, we're getting 1 threat for each point healed and then that's further multiplied by RF?

Don't forget the baked in salvation modifier.

Paladin heals used to produce 0.25threat per point since prebc. However, I don't think anyone proved this still applied in tbhc - when bliz changed rf to work with all holy spells, clearly intending for us to get aggro by healing.

[Dimwit]

Well last night I ran Kara with a warrior OT and I had to apologize to him afterwards cause he didn't get to tank anything. In fact he started putting vigilance on me so he could keep up in threat! Maybe this is our niche, I'm not saying JoL is working properly, but I'm thinking we maybe don't have the oh crap I'm going to die unless I push this button tools but maybe we will not threat cap the group? Maybe because DPS can balls to the wall we won't have to worry about long healer intensive fights, that may normally at some point end in us dying just because the healers couldn't keep us up. But last night my guild zerged kara in 2 hrs, with several AFK's and BIOs. I told a T6 hunter he wasn't going to be able to pull aggro if he waited 3 sec and he didn't believe me, but after he saw me throw up 2K sustained threat on prince and 2.5K peak he was impressed. Plain and simple threat is not a problem right now, but I'm affraid warriors and druids are going to get jealous and QQ.

[Enkal]

I had to click off RF on RoS phase 2 or I would've pulled aggro using JoL... my eavesdrop were spamming me with 5x 400-600 heals every second or so lol.

This will be nerfed, but it's still fun. It's like perma vigilance for us! I want MOAR melee in raids MWAHAHAHHA

Oh and for our full BT clear last night I topped the healing done by a good margin. My gf (holy priest) told me to stop it, I made her look bad.

Illidans 2-3 soul drains helped a little with my healing tho.

[Jasari]

My guess is that they'll make healing from JoL cause no threat. I actually spec'd ret last night for the hell of it and made sure to never judge light during our joke of a ZA run. A little off topic, but I found it hilarious that I never had to reseal during a single boss fight.

[Jikozani]

Well last night I ran Kara with a warrior OT and I had to apologize to him afterwards cause he didn't get to tank anything. In fact he started putting vigilance on me so he could keep up in threat! Maybe this is our niche, I'm not saying JoL is working properly, but I'm thinking we maybe don't have the oh crap I'm going to die unless I push this button tools but maybe we will not threat cap the group? Maybe because DPS can balls to the wall we won't have to worry about long healer intensive fights, that may normally at some point end in us dying just because the healers couldn't keep us up. But last night my guild zerged kara in 2 hrs, with several AFK's and BIOs. I told a T6 hunter he wasn't going to be able to pull aggro if he waited 3 sec and he didn't believe me, but after he saw me throw up 2K sustained threat on prince and 2.5K peak he was impressed. Plain and simple threat is not a problem right now, but I'm affraid warriors and druids are going to get jealous and QQ.

Warriors and druids also have superb threat that won't cap the dps, even if this "bug" puts as ahead.
Probably a fix is needed, because though it may be great for us, it 'll probably cause problems for holy or ret. (Even though they don't have any modifiers to increase its threat, if anything they got to decrease it).

[Io.Draco]

if ya report this you are damn traitor for the tankadin comunity !

Lets enjoy this as much as we can lolz

[vschiano2008]

We 20 manned AQ40 Last night, since our server is still on the up and down swing and didnt have the ppl for regular raid.

my paladin is my ALT- in badge gear only. If I used my hyjal mace, i would pull off of the guilds 'main' pally tank (he's garbage though imo- since patch he cant even get to be uncrittable again). Honestly i was not trying- SoV (Corruption) and judging wisdom, i was pushing 2100 TPS- pulled every boss off the warrior tank, who was getting misdirect too.

note- i was NOT trying to at all. I had to stop using SoV, use my Suneater, and just keep wisdom up to avoid it, but i was still second on threat. i didn't want to tank the bosses cause I had never done AQ before, we were just going for our achievement..

holy shit blizz--- talk about making us op.

and yes i was also button mashing due to lack of addons/keybinds and server lag.

[vschiano2008]

Oh and for our full BT clear last night I topped the healing done by a good margin. My gf (holy priest) told me to stop it, I made her look bad.

Funny, i'm a Belf pally and my girlfriend is a holy priest too lol.

pretty easy to find groups for heroics ^^

[aureon]

hotfixed on eu AFAIK.
or so it looks.

[Corman]

Just to update, last night I ran kara, had a ret pally with me.

No agg issues despite i was doing JoW and he was doing JoL.

I simply produced obscene levels of threat. I don't think its JoL doing it.

Unless JoW produces just as much threat...

[Petrus]

Or perhaps it's been hotfixed?

[Ashram]

Same thing here, cept I was using JoW the whole time (we cleared BT in about an hour and a half just AOEing everything, healers respecced DPS or stood around bored to tears mostly). ~3000 TPS. Threw one HotR and one Judgement and pulled aggro on Naj'Entus, then proceeded to tank him down cause our MT (who is better geared and a skilled player) just couldn't pull him back off me. I was averaging 3000tps on bosses, 2000 on trash. This is just a normal rotation (excluding AS most times too, cause I'm not used to including it) using Judgement/HotR/HS/Consecrate, no wings, no special tricks. Our threat is absolutely through the roof.

I'm not sure I like it. I don't even have to try anymore.

[Io.Draco]

hotfixed on eu AFAIK.
or so it looks.

\

Nope

[Garath.Gorefiend]

Same thing here, cept I was using JoW the whole time (we cleared BT in about an hour and a half just AOEing everything, healers respecced DPS or stood around bored to tears mostly). ~3000 TPS. Threw one HotR and one Judgement and pulled aggro on Naj'Entus, then proceeded to tank him down cause our MT (who is better geared and a skilled player) just couldn't pull him back off me. I was averaging 3000tps on bosses, 2000 on trash. This is just a normal rotation (excluding AS most times too, cause I'm not used to including it) using Judgement/HotR/HS/Consecrate, no wings, no special tricks. Our threat is absolutely through the roof.

I'm not sure I like it. I don't even have to try anymore.

Did your warrior toss Vigilance on you? That will reduce your threat by 10% and transfer it to the warrior.

I know that in ZA the other night, that without having Vigilance on me, the warrior had trouble taking or keeping aggro.

Once he put Vigilance on me though, he was managing to hold aggro unless I wanted to take it...

[Pzone]

Hypothetical/Theoretical Post

Assuming : Overhealing hp/mana does not cause any threat, restoring mana causes threat, healing hp causes threat.

As far as my understanding goes is that you gain threat for the amount of hp you heal(pots/heals) as well as the amount of mana restored(pots as well). If this is the case and my understanding is indeed correct, then depending on your raid make-up JoL/JoW could cause TPS spikes or even sustained TPS.

For example, lets say you have a raid of 75% melee dps(warrior/rogues) on a boss encounter that deals AoE dmg to the raid. The paladin is using JoL, your raid takes AoE dmg, all members of the raid attacking/spellcasting on the judged target have a chance to get healed for a certain amount, causing threat to the Paladin who used JoL. Causing a spike to the paladins TPS.

Now for example, lets say we use the exact same situation & raid make-up, except the paladin is now using JoW. Your 75% melee dps(warrior/rogues) do not gain any effect from gaining mana back, since they do not have mana and assuming overhealing hp/mana has no effect on threat gained by the amount restored, it would then cause no additional threat. Only your casters would benefit from the JoW and the paladin would be gaining threat from the JoW procs of the casters in the raid .

Then I could see why JoL and JoW would cause additional threat to the judger. The only concrete way I could see to test this is theory is by using JoJ and see if the sustained threat/spike tps remained around the same levels. Again, assuming that the assumptions I have made are correct. I will be testing this when I get off work