Diminishing Returns on Avoidance

[Snake-Aes]

I'm not getting a "before diminishing returns" label on block % on live at the moment. I don't know whether this is a typo or not, or whether DR hasn't been implemented for block or something yet.

Is it possible for people to do a quick check to see if this is/isn't true for beta?

The "X rating adds % stat" is before diminishign returns. The version written on your sheet(the one you mouseover to see the tooltip) is already diminished.

Block rating never gets diminished.

[ziggyunderslashone]

In layman's terms, what kind of DR does one see at:

25% dodge? = 68.6%
30% dodge? = 59.4%
35% dodge? = 50.8%

[Eanin]

In layman's terms, what kind of DR does one see at:

25% dodge? = 68.6%
30% dodge? = 59.4%
35% dodge? = 50.8%

Thank you very much.

Wow. That's really low. Back to stacking stam, I guess .

[Snake-Aes]

It's not that bad O.o I lost what would be maybe 3,3% dodge and 1,5% parry compared to what they'd be without DR

[Candiru]

Remember that the more avoidance you have, the more valuable each 1% is to you.

DR means that it keeps being worth about the same, whereas before it became exponentially better to stack avoidance.

eg +10 dodge
@89% avoidance lowers your damage by 90%
@50% avoidance lowers your damage by 20%

DR is a good thing, imho

[Snake-Aes]

Remember that the more avoidance you have, the more valuable each 1% is to you.

DR means that it keeps being worth about the same, whereas before it became exponentially better to stack avoidance.

eg +10 dodge
@89% avoidance lowers your damage by 90%
@50% avoidance lowers your damage by 20%

DR is a good thing, imho

If it's role is to straighten the Ratings' value(which is what it looks like) then yeah I'm with you that DR is a good thing.

[Eanin]

Remember that the more avoidance you have, the more valuable each 1% is to you.

DR means that it keeps being worth about the same, whereas before it became exponentially better to stack avoidance.

eg +10 dodge
@89% avoidance lowers your damage by 90%
@50% avoidance lowers your damage by 20%

DR is a good thing, imho

I hadn't thought of it that way. Good point.

Still, I was stacking dodge before the patch because it got better with each point. Now, I don't have that reason.

To be honest, I've just been throwing on the tanking item with the highest ilevel. Everything seems kind of the same now. The only stat that truly impresses me is strength.

[Candiru]

I always like to stack armour when I can, since I <3 it so much.

Rings, cloak, glove enchant etc.

I can hit the armour cap with an ironshield potion and the parry trinket use, with inspiration up. used to use that for kalecgos enrage, now I have shield wall so I might not do that any more.

Shame imp.lay on hands is 12points.

[ziggyunderslashone]

Still, I was stacking dodge before the patch because it got better with each point.

Precisely why it requires diminished returns!

[Eanin]

Still, I was stacking dodge before the patch because it got better with each point.

Precisely why it requires diminished returns!

I wasn't arguing against the change .

Anyway, I'm a little puzzled by the miss chance changes. Even though I can see my parry and dodge chance on my character sheet, what my chance to be missed is after DR is a complete mystery to me. Is it on the character sheet somewhere?

I'd like to stay at 102.4% if I can, and I'm fairly close. Without that number, though, I can't really be sure.

[majiben]

Still, I was stacking dodge before the patch because it got better with each point.

Precisely why it requires diminished returns!

I wasn't arguing against the change .

Anyway, I'm a little puzzled by the miss chance changes. Even though I can see my parry and dodge chance on my character sheet, what my chance to be missed is after DR is a complete mystery to me. Is it on the character sheet somewhere?

I'd like to stay at 102.4% if I can, and I'm fairly close. Without that number, though, I can't really be sure.

You can't get it to display directly with blizzard's frames. You could get it indirectly if your gear has no parry rating on it. take your parry chance, subtract base parry and parry from talents and what is left over is your parry chance from defense which is equal to your miss chance from defense.

[ziggyunderslashone]

That'd explain the lack of research I guess, I take it theres no api command for it?

[Eanin]

Still, I was stacking dodge before the patch because it got better with each point.

Precisely why it requires diminished returns!

I wasn't arguing against the change .

Anyway, I'm a little puzzled by the miss chance changes. Even though I can see my parry and dodge chance on my character sheet, what my chance to be missed is after DR is a complete mystery to me. Is it on the character sheet somewhere?

I'd like to stay at 102.4% if I can, and I'm fairly close. Without that number, though, I can't really be sure.

You can't get it to display directly with blizzard's frames. You could get it indirectly if your gear has no parry rating on it. take your parry chance, subtract base parry and parry from talents and what is left over is your parry chance from defense which is equal to your miss chance from defense.

Eck. Thank you.

Isn't there some sort of script like getmisschance() or something?

[ziggyunderslashone]

getmisschance()

getyourchancetobemissed()

[Winchester]

Diminishing returns on avoidance.

First what are Diminishing Returns?
A diminished return is when something gets gradually less effective the more you get of it. Think of it like armor. If you have 0 armor and you then get 1000 armor, you wouldnt get the same % mitigation as you would if you went from 15000 to 16000 mitigation.


The above picture only shows dodge you get from gear and does not factor in base dodge and talents.

To avoid tanks stacking too much avoidance in Wotlk (no pun intended) Blizzard implemented diminishing returns to dodge and parry.
Diminishing returns (DR) are calculated separately, so it’s better to balance dodge and parry instead of stacking one over the other.
There are not DR on base avoidances and avoidances gained from talents (such as anticipation and deflection), however avoidances gained from buffs that increase agility do suffer from DR.
To calculate DR from dodge and parry you first need to know how much you’re getting before the DR kick in.
For the agility part do note that for 1 % dodge you will need 20 agility at level 60, 25 at level 70 and 52.084 at 80.

Remember to not calculate your base defense and agility into this.
Dodge = ((Defenserating/defenserating for 1 skill at your level)*0.04) + (dodgerating/dodgerating for 1% dodge at your level) + (agility/agility for 1% dodge at your level)
Parry = ((Defenserating/defenserating for 1 skill at your level)*0.04) + (parryrating/parryrating for 1% parry at your level)

So to calculate your real avoidance (after DR), you use this formula:
Dodge w/DR = 1/(0.011347+(0.956/Dodge))
Parry w/DR = 1/(0.021275+(0.956/Parry))

Example:
You’re level 80 and nekkid, you put on some gear. This gear gives you 100 dodge rating, 50 parry rating, 150 defense rating and 75 agility.
Dodge = ((150/4.918)*0.04) + (100/39.348) + (75/52.084) = 5.2% dodge.
Parry = ((150/4.918)*0.04) + (50/49.185) = 2.36% parry

Dodge w/DR = 1/(0.011347+(0.956/5.2)) = 5.123%
Parry w/DR = 1/(0.021275+(0.956/2.36)) = 2.345%

So your total Dodge would be Dodge w/DR + Base Dodge. And naturally Parry would be Parry w/DR + Base Parry.

copy paste from http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... hp?t=15212