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Uncrushability overated?

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Uncrushability overated?

Postby Valiantly » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:56 am

You can only get crushed by level 73 mobs, which is basically just raid bosses. Uncrushability here is without a doubt necessary and that is not what I want to discuss.

But, for all the trash leading upto a boss is it that necessary to be uncrushable since you don't get crushed?! Sure you guarantee that every hit will be blocked and thus reducing you incoming dmg, but is that worth it? Not to mention that against a level 72 mob you only need 101.6% avoidance instead of 102.4% to guarantee this state. So most of the time you are over-gearing your avoidance by 0.8%.

For example:
Say that I give up uncrushability for extra 50 stamina hence droping my avoidance to 99%. This means that on level 72 mobs I will have 2.6% for an incoming hit not to be blocked. In other words on average every ~20 hits I will sustain and unblocked hit which equals say ~500 dmg (depending what you block value is). What is better 520 extra HP or 500 extra dmg every 20 hits? Keep in mind that this is trash where extra damage can often be trivial and instead provide an incoming heal that will regen your much needed mana.

Is there something I'm overlooking? Please discuss what you think.

Thanks.
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Postby Mortehl » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:57 am

If you're comfortable with only tanking trash, then there is no reason to maintain level 73 uncrushability. However, if you do wish to tank skull bosses, then you do need it!
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Postby Lore » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:57 am

For trash, you are correct, crushing blows aren't a concern.

Most people gear to kill bosses, not trash.
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Postby Alixander » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:05 am

If you have the space and the money/DKP/luck with rolls, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea to get a secondary set for trash mobs. Probably a similar set to the type used for heroics. Lots of Stamina, Spell Damage and Block Value. Swap into it between bosses and into the uncrushable set for the bosses.

Of course there's always the potential issue of forgetting to change into your uncrushable gear before a boss if it's spots that are not overly visible (neck, belt, bracers, rings, trinkets). >.>
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Postby Brute » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:07 am

Maybe it would be a good idea to keep a few peices on your person for tanking trash so you could get more spell damage and intellect, letting the DPS go harder. Sometimes trash don't hit hard enough to warrent the heals to keep your mana up.

I.e., sub in Righteous Breastplate for the Jade-Skull (in my particular situation).
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Postby Joanadark » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:08 am

heya Alix, welcome back.
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Postby Valiantly » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:19 am

Thanks for the response.

I ofcourse meant it in the sense like most suggested that you would just swap 1-3 items out on your way to a boss to clear through the trash quicker/easier.

That in essence you optimze yourself for trash differently then for boss encounters. Some may regards this as pointless, but I thought I would just throw it out there.
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Postby Warrender » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:24 am

Valiantly wrote:That in essence you optimze yourself for trash differently then for boss encounters. Some may regards this as pointless, but I thought I would just throw it out there.


Some might. Most of us just consider this as second nature and don't give it a second thought. I go crazy with Itemrack sets so much that I have to prune them from time to time.
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Postby Derbish » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:36 am

I'll do that on occasion for trash, but mostly am either to lazy to switch the gear with item rack or worried I'll forget to put my uncrushable gear back on for a boss.

For a lot of bosses, though, I factor that in. If I know I'll only be on adds, I have a set with a little more mitigation/spell damage/block value where I'm crushable.

A lot of paladins overlook it, but since we're on adds for a lot of fights, it's a good idea to max that stuff out.
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Postby Worldie » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:43 am

A wise paladin usually have 2 tanking sets, one for bosses and one for everything else.

Or well, i do have 2.
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Postby Teah » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:57 am

I mix-match my gear so much its not even funny. Any tank is going to go nuts with gear because it has so much to with how we preform.
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:20 am

Alixander wrote:If you have the space and the money/DKP/luck with rolls, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea to get a secondary set for trash mobs. Probably a similar set to the type used for heroics. Lots of Stamina, Spell Damage and Block Value. Swap into it between bosses and into the uncrushable set for the bosses.

Of course there's always the potential issue of forgetting to change into your uncrushable gear before a boss if it's spots that are not overly visible (neck, belt, bracers, rings, trinkets). >.>


Yup, I have a non uncrushable set I wear for trash which is similar to what you describe.
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Postby Vanifae » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:50 am

Valiantly wrote:Thanks for the response.

I ofcourse meant it in the sense like most suggested that you would just swap 1-3 items out on your way to a boss to clear through the trash quicker/easier.

That in essence you optimze yourself for trash differently then for boss encounters. Some may regards this as pointless, but I thought I would just throw it out there.

It depends really for me nowadays.

I use my damage set if I want more mana and more threat, but I usually just tank in my standard set, since it really does not affect much on trash anyways.

Trash is usually more a factor of DPS then tanking.

Usually.
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Postby Afraithe » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:41 am

I do complete opposite when tanking trash in 25 man raids, since I'm usually not taking the first add, and do not need to fight to keep aggro on my mob, I put on max mitigation gear, i mean full dodge/parry/armor and try to take as little damage as possible to make it easy for healers, when its time for my target, I switch to spelldamage weapon and use wings to put out max threat during the DPS phase of my mob.
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Re: Uncrushability overated?

Postby Ferrosis » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:16 pm

Valiantly wrote:You can only get crushed by level 73 mobs, which is basically just raid bosses. Uncrushability here is without a doubt necessary and that is not what I want to discuss.

But, for all the trash leading upto a boss is it that necessary to be uncrushable since you don't get crushed?! Sure you guarantee that every hit will be blocked and thus reducing you incoming dmg, but is that worth it? Not to mention that against a level 72 mob you only need 101.6% avoidance instead of 102.4% to guarantee this state. So most of the time you are over-gearing your avoidance by 0.8%.

For example:
Say that I give up uncrushability for extra 50 stamina hence droping my avoidance to 99%. This means that on level 72 mobs I will have 2.6% for an incoming hit not to be blocked. In other words on average every ~20 hits I will sustain and unblocked hit which equals say ~500 dmg (depending what you block value is). What is better 520 extra HP or 500 extra dmg every 20 hits? Keep in mind that this is trash where extra damage can often be trivial and instead provide an incoming heal that will regen your much needed mana.

Is there something I'm overlooking? Please discuss what you think.

Thanks.


I find it surprising that nobody has apparently mentioned that there is trash in the game that can crush. But generally speaking, trash that can crush isn't really a threat to kill a properly geared tank without some special attack or a lack of healers.
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