My synopsis of Paladin glyphs. (TL;DR: CRAP.)

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Postby Elsie » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:40 pm

I'll also point out those numbers assume the boss can parry. Several bosses have parry removed (lynx, brutallus, mother). It's likely to be a continuing option in wotlk.

edit: On another note, can someone change the darn title of this so we don't bump "tl;dr CRAP" all the time?
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Postby Splug » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:56 pm

True, but the 8k-10k per hit paradigm seems about standard for Naxx bosses; figure the numbers will go up from there. I'm just trying to point out a generalized boss case, and given how rough some of the numbers I used are, it may not even be entirely accurate. In retrospect, I didn't account for the parried hit being blocked either. I was just trying to make a point that parry haste generates a non-trivial difference in damage income.

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Postby Kilthanas » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:02 pm

Splug wrote:True, but the 8k-10k per hit paradigm seems about standard for Naxx bosses; figure the numbers will go up from there. I'm just trying to point out a generalized boss case, and given how rough some of the numbers I used are, it may not even be entirely accurate. In retrospect, I didn't account for the parried hit being blocked either. I was just trying to make a point that parry haste generates a non-trivial difference in damage income.

-Splug


I'd be shocked if we were really getting parried every other GCD, without looking at hard numbers I believe it is much, much more infrequent than that. Anyone have a good WWS or something that would give us a nice average parry per minute for a tier 6 pally against a raid boss that can parry?
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Postby Macha » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:12 pm

Splug wrote:10 expertise is going to be trickier. Figuring one autoattack per 2.5 sec, and one parryable special attack every other GCD, a 1-second window has .733 attacks (repeating, of course). Assuming a parry generates an additional attack for .24 normal swing damage (functually equivalent to generating .24 extra swings), and the delta in parry chance is 2.5%, there is 0.025 * 0.733 * .24 * 10,000 = 44 damage per second saved from avoided parries before player avoidance.


More like 4,4 damage. Remember, parries do not happen this often, with expertise or not. It's not good math to assume it does and comparing from there.

Edit: I usually get parried 2-4 times a minute by a boss. THis...makes 10 expertise as a potential mitigation stat incredibly neglectable. It's good threat though.
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Postby Elsie » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:21 pm

Splug wrote:10 expertise is going to be trickier. Figuring one autoattack per 2.5 sec, and one parryable special attack every other GCD, a 1-second window has .733 attacks (repeating, of course). Assuming a parry generates an additional attack for .24 normal swing damage (functually equivalent to generating .24 extra swings), and the delta in parry chance is 2.5%, there is 0.025 * 0.733 * .24 * 10,000 = 44 damage per second saved from avoided parries before player avoidance.

So people are on page:
0.0025 = parry removed by 10 expertise at 80
0.733 = numbers of attacks per second
0.24 = portion of normal damage dealt for a parry

0.24 is drawn from a parry granting you either 0, or 20-40% swing reduction (which was done on tankspot).
Where 20% the time you get no reduction, 40% the time a 40% reduction, and 40% the time a 20-40% reduction.
Last edited by Elsie on Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Splug » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:22 pm

I may have made a mistake in my understanding of the paladin tanking rotation. Every other GCD is either Shield of Righteousness or Hammer of the Righteous, which are parryable attacks, correct? Judgement, Holy Shield, and Consecration cannot provoke parries, so the 9-second cooldown skills don't count toward number of parryable attacks generated.

Hrm, re-reading your question, let me clarify: what I was counting were attacks which can be parried, not actual parries.

EDIT: Yeah, what Elsie said.

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Postby Splug » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:31 pm

Macha wrote:Edit: I usually get parried 2-4 times a minute by a boss. THis...makes 10 expertise as a potential mitigation stat incredibly neglectable. It's good threat though.
To compare the hypothetical number I had to your observed parry count, .7333 parryable attacks per second extrapolates to 44 parryable attacks per minute. I'm not sure what you're using in the way of expertise, but at ~20 expertise skill a player would have roughly a 10% chance to be parried by a boss-entity (significantly lower against entities which are not +3 levels). This would generate 4.4 parries per minute, which is slightly higher than the numbers you're observing. Are your parries-per-minute using WotLK rotations or TBC rotations (Re: No parry-provoking instants)? It's also possible I just have the rotation wrong, due to replacing hammer/shield with exorcism...

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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:37 pm

Splug wrote:I may have made a mistake in my understanding of the paladin tanking rotation. Every other GCD is either Shield of Righteousness or Hammer of the Righteous, which are parryable attacks, correct? Judgement, Holy Shield, and Consecration cannot provoke parries, so the 9-second cooldown skills don't count toward number of parryable attacks generated.

Hrm, re-reading your question, let me clarify: what I was counting were attacks which can be parried, not actual parries.

EDIT: Yeah, what Elsie said.

-Splug


Hammer doesn't seem to be parryable, it gets deflected. Autoattack and ShoR are about it I think.
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Postby Splug » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:39 pm

Hrm, I suppose that's true. Do we know whether that increases autoattack speed? I saw a few threads on that, but none with a conclusive decision on the matter.

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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:43 pm

Splug wrote:Hrm, I suppose that's true. Do we know whether that increases autoattack speed? I saw a few threads on that, but none with a conclusive decision on the matter.

-Splug


Not that I know of, it's still a bit of a mystery as to the exact details.
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Postby steadypal » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:16 am

WTB

glyph of sanctuary, increases ur blessing of sanctuary by 20 minutes


LOL


PST great minor glyph there
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Postby Jaydin » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:39 am

bah...gotta just rant for a second and QQ about every single list i see is mixed together minor and major...wtb separate major and minor lists so i can arrange my thoughts (and i've been too lazy to write them down myself)

gonna write these down when i get home and sort'em for myself ^_^
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Postby DeadMilliken » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:42 am

Minor Glyphs

Having several glyphs do the exact same thing to a different spell is silly.

Glyph of Blessings
-50% mana cost of all blessing spells.

Glyph of Grinding
+20min to all non-greater blessings.

Glyph of PennyPinching
No reagent costs.

Glyph of the FryingPan
Hammer of the Righteous has a chance to create "Bacon of Light"(1/1 unique) when you strike an enemy. If you eat the bacon of light, you gain 10str and hammer of the Righteous will now make a sizzling sound when used for the next 30mins.

Major Glyphs

Glyph of High 25
+25% duration to all hand spells, +25% resistance chance to hand being dispelled, +25% additional cooldown

Glyph of Tanking with no mana.
If you are at 100% hp and under 5% mana, your next consecration is mana free and reseals your weapon with seal of wisdom.
60sec internal cooldown.

Glyph of Nelson
Shield of the Righteous grants you immunity from mana burn for 6sec. You will automatically emote a point and laugh if a target tries to manaburn you during this time.

(*yes its powerful, and holy might even use it...but it requires being in melee range and recasting every 6sec)

Yes, I'm bored at work.
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Postby Elsie » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:53 am

The only minor glyph or additional glyphs I'd like to see is a mitigation glyph and +1min to seal duration glyph.
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Postby Falibard » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:52 am

DeadMilliken wrote:Glyph of the FryingPan
Spatula of the Righteous has a chance to create "Bacon of Light"(1/1 unique) when you strike an enemy. If you eat the bacon of light, you gain 10str and hammer of the Righteous will now make a sizzling sound when used for the next 30mins.


Fixed.

Clearly what WoW lacks is the never ending sizzle of bacon.
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