Tidewalkers Murlocs

Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Fathom-Lord, Tidewalker, Vashj

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Postby Warrender » Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:28 pm

Arianne wrote:Whenever we've tried to do it that way 'healers take it easy', then the MT dies. So we've found it better to make sure that the murloc aggroer is someone who can get lots of heal aggro fast.


The MT has never died during Murloc phase whenever we've done this. We do have some pretty good healers though.

If this works for you, then keep on doing it. This is one fight where it's possible to use totally different strats to kill the boss.
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Postby Stormfist » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:41 pm

Arianne wrote:Whenever we've tried to do it that way 'healers take it easy', then the MT dies. So we've found it better to make sure that the murloc aggroer is someone who can get lots of heal aggro fast.


Typical case of your healers to need to learn to play.

edit; i mean cmon... when u know an earthquake has just hit, everyone your raid should bandage right away and healers just throw hots & shields on the MT. I do 1 consecration, which in the beginning was with 200 SD, and they stuck to me like glue. Now with 450 SD healers can just keep healing and i win at aggro's. (tip: have everyone in the raid use bandage after earthquake!!)
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Postby IceRaven » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:47 pm

I tried doing this strat with tanking all murlocs with healing agro outside of grave range. It worked pretty good, but im wondering 3 things:

1) When do I start healing the warlock? Just when I see ppl get earthquake or?

2) What Rank Holy Light? 11 ?

3) How much +healing should I have to keep rock solid agro (all healers will have salvation, and are using lesser rank heals at earthquake).
Last edited by IceRaven on Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Arianne » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:47 pm

We use the strategy where the paladin tank/healer and the warlocks are out of range of graves. So you can't count on consecration to grab them off whoever after a few ticks. We find that the strategy work with much more predictability (aside from the MT gibs) than others we tried.
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Postby Reiyuka » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:50 pm

Would "everyone collapse onto the skull" work as an alternate strategy to my gimpy healing? Or at least, all the healers. Dragging them into my consecrate would pull them off lickety split.
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Postby Worldie » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:55 pm

Reiyuka wrote:Would "everyone collapse onto the skull" work as an alternate strategy to my gimpy healing? Or at least, all the healers. Dragging them into my consecrate would pull them off lickety split.


Thats what we use, but there's still someone that doesnt get on me. I prefer the blue square tbh.
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Postby Tiandelin » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:57 pm

IceRaven wrote:I tried doing this strat with tanking all murlocs with healing agro outside of grave range. It worked pretty good, but im wondering 3 things:

1) When do I start healing the warlock? Just when I see ppl get earthquake or?


I stand around with a vacant stare until the earthquake hits, then I toss two holy lights on the warlock.

IceRaven wrote:2) What Rank Holy Light? 11 ?


That's what I use.

IceRaven wrote:3) How much +healing should I have to keep rock solid agro (all healers will have salvation, and are using lesser rank heals at earthquake).


Honestly, I just wear block tanking gear and swap in a healing mace (Sha'tar rep) and shield (Karazhan chess event) when I don't have murlocs beating on me. I also use the +healing on BoL'd targets libram from Opera.

The warlock should have fel armor, amplify magic, and blessing of light on him. Between that and your healing weapon and shield, you should be fine.
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GRave range change?

Postby Gorechylde » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:51 pm

I tried to get my guild to follow the "tank the murlocs out of grave range" tactic last night and was swatted down. I was told that his grave range was extended and that this tactic would no longer work. Is that true? Anything you can tell me would help since the guild seems really against a paladin tank,for almost any task, despite what I do to prove it to be a viable option.
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Re: GRave range change?

Postby Warrender » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:20 pm

Gorechylde wrote:I tried to get my guild to follow the "tank the murlocs out of grave range" tactic last night and was swatted down. I was told that his grave range was extended and that this tactic would no longer work. Is that true? Anything you can tell me would help since the guild seems really against a paladin tank,for almost any task, despite what I do to prove it to be a viable option.
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Nope, the grave range is unchanged. I don't know if they plan on changing it next patch but I haven't heard any word of this either.
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Postby corc » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:40 pm

Stormfist wrote:I tank all...


sounds like you tank the boss too... lol, yay crushing blows up the gazoo!
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Re: GRave range change?

Postby Tiandelin » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:26 pm

Gorechylde wrote:I tried to get my guild to follow the "tank the murlocs out of grave range" tactic last night and was swatted down. I was told that his grave range was extended and that this tactic would no longer work. Is that true? Anything you can tell me would help since the guild seems really against a paladin tank,for almost any task, despite what I do to prove it to be a viable option.


Either it has not been extended or my warlock and I have been really lucky recently. As for them ever changing it, consider: if they meant for watery grave to be unavoidable, why not just set a 50000 yard range like all other unavoidable spells? The way it is, it's a tradeoff between dps and stability, as well as an opportunity for paladin tanks to shine.

As for the other issue, well... it's really hard to overcome the prejudice against paladin tanks. A lot of people seem to take to heart the claims of top raiding guilds who claim that protection paladins are useless (and probably didn't even give them a chance anyway), which is unfortunate. It actually wasn't until my guild started working on Morogrim that I was even given an opportunity to do anything beyond heroics and Karazhan. Hopefully your guild will give you a chance to prove yourself as well.
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Postby YoYoMa » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:16 am

So we finally got some shots in at Tidewalker this week. Here is how it went down

First 2 or 3 tries, we just were getting the lay of the land. I was in my spell damage gear, warlock would lifetap before earthquake and I would heal them up. We stood at the entrance of the room where the south set of murloc enter. I would pick them up no issue and would only pick up the north end sometimes. The problem I felt was that because I was so far away there was too much time between when they spawned and when they actually got to me. That left a lot of healing time in there for the rest of the raid and they would always pull healing aggro by the time they got to me.

So we switched and I went into a cubby hole on the side hoping to shorten the time that the murlocs needed run to get to me. I was still having trouble getting healing aggro. So I felt that this strat wasn't reliable enough for us to keep trying.

Then we just clumped up behind the boss and I would stand on the healers. This worked MUCH better for us. Even if I got watery graved I still had aggro and they would run to me. So we finally got the murlocs under control without any issue. But now we were loosing the MT to crushings. Otherwise this was going pretty smooth.

Sooo, then just to test I went in to MT the boss. No issue with crushings because of the 8 blocks and the healers were happy. But then we had nobody to pick up murlocs... grrrr.

So tonight we are gonna put a holy pally in some tanking gear with the help of 2 warriors top pick up the adds while I MT. Hopefully this is a winning strat for us.
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Postby Questioner » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:40 am

Finally downed him last night. I went prot for this (with a kinda odd spec, don't look at it, wasn't on purpose :D). We tried it with me as holy on Thursday and I wasn't comfortable. We used the "tank them on his ass strategy."

As prot, I can say this, block is your friend. When I blocked I sometimes completely nullified the hits. Spell damage is also your friend. I was running with ~500 spell damage raid buffed. I used 2-3 max rank holy lights on my warlock. It is a good idea for the warlock to tap 2-3k off BEFORE earthquake, or you may heal full.

The biggest problem we had was our healers getting overzealous after earthquake. They need to make sure they are only healing the MT until the murlocs are hitting you. Any time they started healing raid damage too soon, they would end up outthreating me.

A second issue was frost novas. There really is no reason to frost nova if a paladin is tanking. All it does is lock some murlocs out of range. Use frost nova on runners if you somehow miss them.

Another thing that helped me was rearranging my bars to be specific for this fight. I only used SoW, JoW, Holy Shield, Max Rank HL, BoP and Bubble on the whole fight.

You should have time to melee between murlocs. Use JoW/SoW here. Bring mana pots as well.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:40 am

Well, we tried again last night and still had trouble for some unkown reason.

We were short on attempts as we also had to kill Lurker and all the trash, I think we had 4 but never got him below 60%.

We still position everyone at Tidewalkers feet.
We only had one Warlock for the fight.
We had the Lock in the MT group with a Tree, Fel Armor and Amp Magic up. Later we put BoL on him instead of BoW.
The lock does not Lifetap.
I was in threat gear and using my Healing MH and shield which had me around 500 Healing buffed.
We have all the Paladins with RF up and no salv.


When I didn't get agro it went to:
- Another Paladin (we had him take off RF after 2 attempts)
- A druid whose Lifebloom went off just as the Murlocks spawned
- The MT who dropped a TC right as the north Murlocks were passing.
- The MT again twice for no apparent reason.

My process in order when the Earthquake hits:
1) Heal Lock
2) Heal Me
3) Heal some random person

Obviously, whenever agro didn't hit me from the start we lost time while rounding up Murlocks and eventually wiped as one Murlock phase ran into the next.


How would the MT be pulling agro, aside from the poorly timed TC?


If we cannot get this solved tonight I'm going to suggest the "off to the side" strat but with what happened last night I'm worried about my agro.
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Postby kedalic » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:49 am

My first Morogrim kills were using the tank the adds by morogrim strat, so that aoe would hit morogrim as well. The benefit is a (minor) amount of added dps on morogrim, as well as having all healers in consecrate range if I miss a heal (or someone crit heals, etc). However, it adds you getting graved as a MAJOR random element, and a grave right after or during a pickup isn't recoverable...

So, after a string of bad wipes the other night from badly timed graves (like, every single grave in a row) leading to murloc pain, we changed to having me tank them standing in the watery grave area, where morogrim starts. All the raid warlocks were instructed to tap (in case one got graved or forgot) and with 600 spell dmg, 3 holy lights on the tapping warlocks (who stood at the top of the ramp, allowing them to continue to dps morogrim at all times) would stick all the adds onto me like glue, and allowed the healers to mostly continue like normal. Tanking out of grave range removes a HUGE random element from the fight, and really is the better strat, provided your warlocks tap properly, and the healers don't raid heal until you have them all picked up each pass. The only difficult part is when you hit 25% with a pack of murlocs still on you, and have to move them while dodging the bubbles, and while the MT is moving morogrim as well (and you transition to tanking on the murlocs on top of morogrim at that point as well). But, just have the raid slow down to push him under 25% after the adds are down to be safe.
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