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My synopsis of Paladin glyphs. (TL;DR: CRAP.)

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Postby Sabreyn » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:40 pm

I've gotten in trouble before (esp. in SSC/TK) with AS pulling too many mobs to me (and once in BT on that pull right before Naj'entus, learned pretty quick to stop using it on pulls if I didn't want to get gibbed), so AS glyph makes me happy to be able to use AS for pulls in raids. The only times I really want it to bounce are in 5-mans and on AoE pulls - I think I'll be able to do without that in exchange for double single-target threat.
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Postby Elsie » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:42 pm

A few points:

+10% block value glyph is overpowering with warrior mechanics and I don't think it's been tested. I have a feeling it will get changed.

Avenger's Shield glyph has a strength that is entirely dependent on the boss design. If we fight anything like we have fought thus far, it's not necessary due to Hammer of Justice, Consecrate, and reflective damage.
-I don't think trash is relevant enough to care about. It's something I can safely say "get a misdirect on the fourth guy you cant shield / judge / taunt."
-Shade of Akama and M'uru are both easily done without Avenger's shield. I never used it on the aoe portion of Felmyst.

Taunt Glyph's strength is entirely dependent on how taunt works and if bosses that must be taunted are like Brutallus or like Kalecgos.

Expertise Glyph is nice in theory, but our abilities don't all scale with expertise making it a poor choice in my mind.

To the OP: Your post doesn't consider pvp, doesn't consider situational encounters, and doesn't consider various theorycraft threads. Indeed, it appears to be "at a glance" without any insight. Also, you decided to write it (and the title) with aggressive language. I suggest writing more respectful in the future with more research.
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Postby Karock » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:45 pm

I'm sure it's been said somewhere but... as a side note, who the hell cares how much mana blessing of kings costs?
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Postby Mortehl » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:09 pm

In my opinion, the bounce is greatly overrated when you can hotr for the same affect.
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Postby aranil » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:15 pm

Mortehl wrote:In my opinion, the bounce is greatly overrated when you can hotr for the same affect.


I think that glyph is a personal choice. I love the 3 target instance cast AS, and unless the numbers just show beyound a shadow of a doubt that it's not worth it, I won't pick it up. As I said before, some people like the bounce, others don't, it is a personal prefence.
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Postby Macha » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:04 am

aranil wrote:
Mortehl wrote:In my opinion, the bounce is greatly overrated when you can hotr for the same affect.


I think that glyph is a personal choice. I love the 3 target instance cast AS, and unless the numbers just show beyound a shadow of a doubt that it's not worth it, I won't pick it up. As I said before, some people like the bounce, others don't, it is a personal prefence.


And this makes it so good - both these who like AS bounce, and these who don't, get their way. It's a choice ^^
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Postby Brand » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:59 am

Macha wrote:
aranil wrote:
Mortehl wrote:In my opinion, the bounce is greatly overrated when you can hotr for the same affect.


I think that glyph is a personal choice. I love the 3 target instance cast AS, and unless the numbers just show beyound a shadow of a doubt that it's not worth it, I won't pick it up. As I said before, some people like the bounce, others don't, it is a personal prefence.


And this makes it so good - both these who like AS bounce, and these who don't, get their way. It's a choice ^^


Yes, I can see it being beneficial both ways. Currently for instances where there are multiple tanks set up on multiple mob encounters it allows me to pull one and only one, making it easier for the other tanks who are pulling at the same time to get the aggro they need as well.
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Postby steadypal » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:58 am

i think EVERYBODY loves the bounce, YET, love the idea of single target AS on burst dmg on single target mobs/bosses... cant have both, so u have to think which you would use the most? imo im using it every trash pull, and i'll give up the more dmg on bosses, i dont see any of us changing glyphs mid raid, since we need that thingy to install them... :P


hmm is there a way to select which type of pull u want or is it just full time single target pull? it would be pretty leet if u can toggle it off and on accordingly
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Postby Elsie » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:15 am

i think EVERYBODY loves the bounce, YET, love the idea of single target AS on burst dmg on single target mobs/bosses... cant have both, so u have to think which you would use the most? imo im using it every trash pull, and i'll give up the more dmg on bosses, i dont see any of us changing glyphs mid raid, since we need that thingy to install them...

I'll put it in perspective:
warriors did fine with just Thunderclap.
Druids have Swipe.
We now have Hammer of the Righteous a.k.a. Holy Swipe.
We still have Consecrate.

In the xpac:
Warrior has thunderclap / shock wave / reflective shield
Druid has swipe / Mangle+CD / thorns
Paladin has HotR / Consecrate / ret aura / holy shield

I don't see a problem where the bounce will be necessary for threat, and pretty much all our abilities have a range. If anything, this glyph == Devastate glyph for initial threat.
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Postby Lore » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:24 am

Elsie wrote:warriors did fine with just Thunderclap.


lol?
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Postby Elsie » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:32 am

Lore wrote:
Elsie wrote:warriors did fine with just Thunderclap.


lol?

As an "aoe move." I didn't say they worked a little.

We're actually even better off with a dot seal since 5-stack and windfury makes 5 stack upkeep easymode.
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Postby Worldie » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:36 am

Elsie wrote:windfury

What's the relation between WF and SoV?
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Postby Elsie » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:50 am

Worldie wrote:
Elsie wrote:windfury

What's the relation between WF and SoV?

Since we're talking about an issue with 3 mobs, windfury would make you reach a 5 stack on all 3 20% faster with swings. The one and probably only time I'd say windfury isn't so bad for us. Also handy if hotr misses or you want to use hotr to start with Seal of Righteousness for a bit more initial burst.

It's rather handy in this particular one instance with the 2.5 speed tanking weapon that's out. If you tab once, hit two once and one twice, then you'll have a 4 stack on one and two 3 stacks in 10 seconds vs 8 seconds.
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Postby Khayne » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:59 pm

I´d just wish we´d have some semi-defensive mitigational glyphs like that bv glyph that warriors get.

i dont care if it´s an +armor proc chance when devo aura on and you get hit.

+resistances when resistance aura on (can be a number or +% of total resistance)

block value after some shield move (holy shield/Shor)

parry chance after weapon move (would be nice since this would be useful for more specs attleast in pvp, just make it proc after both cs&hotr, you´ll allways only have one anyway so can be balanced with thinking only 1)

make holy shield cd refresh after redoubt proc or make redoubt also increase BV abit on proc (in tight aoe situation you will lose all holy shield charges, get redoubt proc and when you see those go low you could then use holy shield again immediately for more aoe threat&blocking mitigation)

something to give abit choice to get some mitigation instead of only +threat on AS/Judgement/SoV/SoR or more mana/cheapo spells on SoB/allways/SoW
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Postby Dawnseeker » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:20 pm

Hmm, intersting thing they let slip in blizzcon (from http://www.mmo-champion.com/)
"Q: The sound for HoR is so annoying and needs to be changed. as far as taunting, the 3 target taunt is great until you're trying to taunt one thing and is there any chance the 11 point talent would be a single target taunt.
A: It wouldn't be a 11 point talent. it'd be pretty lame to have to spec down into that. there's a glyph to make it single target but it comes down to how similar do the classes have to be? we had to change the DK because it was too much like warriors and druids."

Either they haven't quite got their facts straight, or we're finally getting a decent glyph (assuming it taunts the mob you're targeting not the player the mob you're targeting's targeting).
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