Diminishing Returns on Avoidance

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Postby steadypal » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:24 pm

Majiben wrote:
steadypal wrote:
Majiben wrote:The one thing I am unhappy with DR for is that hits on use trinkets really hard. The pockect watch will far less useful. Speaking of trinkets the ZA parry trinket is looking good.



that got hit to
How so? The on use effect is stil the same as far as I know. The only reason why the pocketwatch was so popular as the on use ability gave 15% dodge. Before DR it still gives around 7.5% dodge at level 80. With DR it's not worth using for wotlk.



oh just sayin parry trinket got hit by what i say .46% parry
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Postby Elsie » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:25 pm

Actually this makes the commendation look really... well, less good.
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Postby Chunes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:29 pm

Elsie wrote:Actually this makes the commendation look really... well, less good.


as far as the proc is concerned, yeah. but stam is still stam. The other option would be to throw together a darkmoon card of your choice to team up with your defense trink of choice.
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Postby Elsie » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:49 pm

Chunes wrote:
Elsie wrote:Actually this makes the commendation look really... well, less good.


as far as the proc is concerned, yeah. but stam is still stam. The other option would be to throw together a darkmoon card of your choice to team up with your defense trink of choice.

I was thinking a BV trinket would be cool. Autoblocker is 54? BV. That's roughly 70 BV vs 640 hp. Granted 70 BV would require 8 hits taken to compare.
Or the ZA trinket parry (static vs DR proc) and ~2.5% dmg reduction on use. Would only take 2-3 hits from a reasonable boss for the on-use to equal 640 hp (about 10k unmitigated hit is 250 damage negated by use).

...I'll probably be using pocketwatch + shadowmoon insignia more often.
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Postby Orms » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:47 am

Someone said you now cant get 102.4% combined avoidance to become unhittable (uncrushable) anymore. Is that true, does block rating have diminishing returns also?
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Postby Noradin » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:38 am

Orms wrote:Someone said you now cant get 102.4% combined avoidance to become unhittable (uncrushable) anymore. Is that true, does block rating have diminishing returns also?


block rating has no dimishing returns as far as I know (since there are abilities like HS and SB it wouldn't really make sence, too).
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Postby Scaradin » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:00 am

on PTR, I can still get over 102.5% avoidance by quite a bit (I can get about 94% passive uncrushability due to building the uncrushable set). So, DR doesn't affect things so drastically as stop that. However, it takes more of my uncrushable tanking set and less of my normal tanking set in order to hit the 102.5%;

With that said, there is no more crushing blows so other than for avoidance and increased effective health, there is no specific reason to aim for 102.5% (magic number of 490 is still key for tanking @ 70 though)
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:50 am

Scaradin wrote:on PTR, I can still get over 102.5% avoidance by quite a bit (I can get about 94% passive uncrushability due to building the uncrushable set). So, DR doesn't affect things so drastically as stop that. However, it takes more of my uncrushable tanking set and less of my normal tanking set in order to hit the 102.5%;

With that said, there is no more crushing blows so other than for avoidance and increased effective health, there is no specific reason to aim for 102.5% (magic number of 490 is still key for tanking @ 70 though)


Yes there is still a specific reason to hit 102.4

The reason is that it pushes normal hits off the attack table.

If you reach 102.4 every unavoided hit is mitigated by block...
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Postby Orms » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:02 am

Garath.Gorefiend wrote:
Scaradin wrote:on PTR, I can still get over 102.5% avoidance by quite a bit (I can get about 94% passive uncrushability due to building the uncrushable set). So, DR doesn't affect things so drastically as stop that. However, it takes more of my uncrushable tanking set and less of my normal tanking set in order to hit the 102.5%;

With that said, there is no more crushing blows so other than for avoidance and increased effective health, there is no specific reason to aim for 102.5% (magic number of 490 is still key for tanking @ 70 though)


Yes there is still a specific reason to hit 102.4

The reason is that it pushes normal hits off the attack table.

If you reach 102.4 every unavoided hit is mitigated by block...
this^
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Postby Rhiannon » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:27 am

So I guess the net result of this is that we're unlikely to be gemming/enchanting dodge/parry/defense beyond what's needed to meet uncrittable/102.4%, as EH gemming/chanting has no such DR? Is there a block value gem? I've seen there's expertise gems out there.
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Postby Revnger » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:13 am

this is actually good news.... surely it's there to stop rogues from wanting to be tanks.
nothing worse than standing there and watching a rogue tank Gruul and take zero damage for the fight.
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Postby eXa » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:38 pm

Revnger wrote:nothing worse than standing there and watching a rogue tank Gruul and take zero damage for the fight.


*cough* Standing there watching a rogue tank mother and take zero damage the entire fight...
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Postby Eanin » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:49 am

I read that chart and formula, and really had no clue what it was talking about.

In layman's terms, what kind of DR does one see at:

25% dodge?
30% dodge?
35% dodge?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:55 am

Eanin wrote:I read that chart and formula, and really had no clue what it was talking about.

In layman's terms, what kind of DR does one see at:

25% dodge?
30% dodge?
35% dodge?
I don't think I can simplify it better than that :|

An example on how it is right now: At 30% dodge and 17% parry, 38 dodge rating gave me 0,4% less avoidance than 48 parry rating.
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Postby Othniel » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:50 am

I'm not getting a "before diminishing returns" label on block % on live at the moment. I don't know whether this is a typo or not, or whether DR hasn't been implemented for block or something yet.

Is it possible for people to do a quick check to see if this is/isn't true for beta?
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