chest enchants

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chest enchants

Postby daemonym » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:20 am

not sure if this is in the right place, so please move if the placement is fail.

with 3.0 comming in just a few days and the stats that we'll be losing, a few HP, lotsa defense, and a fist full of avoidance i was wondering what chest enchant you'll all be going with.

the main options are 150 health, 15 defense, and 6 stats. i'm not sure what ones wrath will bring as i haven't had much time to look into them, but it seems that +6 stats might come out ahead a tad. assuming you won't NEED the extra 15 defense rating to get back to uncrit (which shouldn't be too needed with a def trinket and a tanking weapon) i'm not sure how many will end up needing this one.

150 health has been my standard for a while since i'm always trying to get my hp up to that of the other tanks.

but 6 stats will give us a tad more threat and BV while only losing a little amount of health. on live the +6 gains are not that important aside from the stamina which the straight 150 bonus tops.

rambling a bit now i think so what do all of you think? stats, defense, or flat hp?
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Postby dmok » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:21 am

+6 stats is (as far as I'm concerned) not even close to the other 2 enchants for a tank. If you are having trouble remaining uncrit, get +def. Otherwise, go with +150hp
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Postby Conaan! » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:24 am

dmok wrote:+6 stats is (as far as I'm concerned) not even close to the other 2 enchants for a tank. If you are having trouble remaining uncrit, get +def. Otherwise, go with +150hp


+6 stats is actually technically better, you gain 6 str (3 BV/12 AP), which is equal to 1 green str gem, basicly you have 4 green gems thrown in one enchant.

the dodge/armor/bv/ap/stam from 6 stats beats 150 hp, considering changing to 150hp you only gain about 20 some hp
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:59 am

From an EH perspective, 15 Def>150hp>+6 stats
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Postby Eaglestrike » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:03 am

I may switch to +6 stats, just because it's overall pretty nice.

+6 str = 14ish AP after DS/Kings and 3.5 BV -> 4.5ish after shield spec.
+6 agi = .25% dodge and some crit
+6 stam = duh
+6 int = more max mana for sanc and judgment crit?
+6 spi = still useless but whatever

On live currently the str/spi do basically nothing for us. Int becomes a nice bonus (not worth focusing on but I'll take it where I can) and agi returns more since crits help us more.

But if I'm not well above uncrittable for defense I'll be keeping defense for sure.
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Postby Conaan! » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:07 am

Garath.Gorefiend wrote:From an EH perspective, 15 Def>150hp>+6 stats


an EH perspective would take in the BV/armor/dodge factor and surely show 6 stats>150 hp, though i wouldnt be able to say definitely that 15 def > 6 stats, as i dont want to do any math atm for that.
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:29 am

Conaan! wrote:
Garath.Gorefiend wrote:From an EH perspective, 15 Def>150hp>+6 stats


an EH perspective would take in the BV/armor/dodge factor and surely show 6 stats>150 hp, though i wouldnt be able to say definitely that 15 def > 6 stats, as i dont want to do any math atm for that.


Simple enough...the EH on gems has been out for ever...

15 sta is same as 10 def...

15 sta is obviously greater than 150 hp...

So 15def>>150hp

On 6 stats, yes you get more threat...12 AP and .24% crit, but that has no effect on EH.

Putting in the variables on my tank, at 62% mitigation:

EHA Increases:

15 Def = 1302
150HP = 789
6 stats= 747

EHA is your effective health/chance to be hit

From a survivability perspective, 15 Def is the best enchant choice for chest. The 3 BV you would get from stats enchant really isnt even close to enough to make up the EHA gap.
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Postby Jikozani » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:38 am

Uhh,

EH=stamina, armor and block value. From an EH perspective, +150hp is the best.
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Postby halabar » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:38 am

However... considering our new friend STR, the +6 stats gives us more overall, especially while leveling. But the case is certainly made that the def chant is best for pure tanking.

Now, if Blizz gives us that new spec-switching today or tomorrow, and you want to pop back between ret and prot with a single chest piece, then +6 stats is the clear winner.
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Postby Uphir » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:46 am

wont the +6 stat scale with BoK also.
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Postby halabar » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:51 am

Uphir wrote:wont the +6 stat scale with BoK also.


And Div Str, and that wisdom one too.. :D
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Postby daemonym » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:59 am

halabar wrote: But the case is certainly made that the def chant is best for pure tanking.


assuming i won't have to alter my gear much at all to be uncrit, and 15 def won't change my gear selections, is this still the case? not agreeing/disagreeing, just asking for your reasoning to help me decide.
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Postby steadypal » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:03 am

idk i read alot of ppl that got to ptr and noticed the 20 less defense from talents and had to regem for def... im on ptr atm i put the 12def meta just to try out the bv meta... got a new chest, so dont have an enchant on it, and im at 520def


soooo im not sure either


i know 150hp is highest hp, but doesnt scale with anything...


so imo its 15def > 6 stats


but if your already way over on def, would the stats be the best choice?


hmmmmmm stam/ap/bv/int/crit/dodge all in one enchant sounds pretty decent to me...
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:04 am

Jikozani wrote:Uhh,

EH=stamina, armor and block value. From an EH perspective, +150hp is the best.


EH is indeed just stamina, armor and BV.

EHA takes into account avoidance.

EH is only a factor for tanks if you are undergeared or on progression fights.

EHA is all about increasing survivability.

Basically, the math is simple. Once you get to a certain gear level, that allows you to survive the incoming mitigated hits, you will extend your life more with avoidance than you will by adding more hp.

Why do you think that for gemming, that current epic gems give you either 10 defense (yellow) or 15 stamina (blue)...do you think Blizz doesnt understand their own game?

Basically, the answer I gave is really simple...if you have a choice, your better off to put the 15 def enchant on chest and switch out an avoidance gem on another piece of gear for a 15 stamina gem.

150hp enchant is really not a good enchant choice unless your gear is relatively bad.
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:11 am

steadypal wrote:idk i read alot of ppl that got to ptr and noticed the 20 less defense from talents and had to regem for def... im on ptr atm i put the 12def meta just to try out the bv meta... got a new chest, so dont have an enchant on it, and im at 520def


soooo im not sure either


i know 150hp is highest hp, but doesnt scale with anything...


so imo its 15def > 6 stats


but if your already way over on def, would the stats be the best choice?


hmmmmmm stam/ap/bv/int/crit/dodge all in one enchant sounds pretty decent to me...


Keep in mind you are taking a fairly large defense hit going to patch 3.0

Also, once you ding 71, it takes more defense rating to maintain a non-crit status.

Basically you will find that from a min/max perspective, you are best off with the defense/avoidance enchants on your gear.

IE take the 15 def - chest, 12 def bracer, 12 dodge or 12 def on cloak..

Bang for buck, these enchants are better than the stamina enchants .

I usually use the gem equivalence rule: 10 def~=15 sta

In every case, the defense enchant is better by that rule, I use the defense enchants...That allows me to mostly gem for stamina.
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