+2% Threat or +20 Spell Dmg for gloves?

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+2% Threat or +20 Spell Dmg for gloves?

Postby Lucianas » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:32 pm

So basically I'm trying to figure out which enchant is better and where does it make it better in terms of raw threat increase.

I'm preety sure +2% threat is...since it would scale with gear (better gear = more spell dmg = bigger increase the higher the spell dmg is). I think.

I'm also preety sure that the +20 spell dmg would be static since its a straight increase in threat.

I'm just trying to figure out where the exact point is (spell dmg wise) where they would be equal in threat, and what is better past that point.

I'm not good at the whole theorycrafting but I know you guys know which it is and the math behind it. If you guys could help enlighten me please.

Sorry if I didn't word all of that very well.

Thanks in advance

Luc
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Postby Arcand » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:38 pm

I ran the numbers on this a while back and I think 630 threat per second is the equivalence point. If you're above that, use +2%. Below that use +20.

Edit: I can't find it now. But the reasoning went like this:

1 spell damage = 0.63 threat per second if you spam max-rank everything

20 spell damage = 12.6tps

If your generated threat is T, there's a point where adding 20 spell damage is equivalent to adding 2% to your threat, which gives us

T + 12.6 = 1.02 T

Solve for T and 630 pops out.
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Postby Lucianas » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:39 pm

Thanks for the reply Arcand.

I guess what I'll do is try to find a mod that can track Avg. TPS over time and see what spell dmg it takes to reach that 630 TPS reliably and constantly (without AW and/or trinkets).

Anyone know what kind of addon does that...I don't have Omen yet (gonna get it tomarrow since its on Curse now). Don't know if Omen can do that or not. If it doesn't any other addon I can get that does?

Thanks again for the help everyone.
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Postby DJSticky » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:01 pm

KTM has an option to show TPS.

I prefer to look at it from a spell damage point of view because your TPS depends alot on which mob you are tanking. Fast attacers = more TPS etc. I seem to remember that at 350+ spell damage or so (very vague) +2% threat becomes better then +20 spelldamage.

Bottom line is in the END the +2% will be better because it scales with your spell damage.
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Postby Lucianas » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:12 pm

DJSticky wrote:KTM has an option to show TPS.

I prefer to look at it from a spell damage point of view because your TPS depends alot on which mob you are tanking. Fast attacers = more TPS etc. I seem to remember that at 350+ spell damage or so (very vague) +2% threat becomes better then +20 spelldamage.

Bottom line is in the END the +2% will be better because it scales with your spell damage.


Thanks DJ,

Yea I use KTM's TPS all the time. I like to make sure nobody is catching me lol. Gonna try out Omen soon.

Yea its so hard to figure out a spell damage now that Im thinking about it more since bosses, skill, mana regen...etc all factor into it. But thanks for info.

The only reason I bring this up is because today I got aggro from VR (we had one of our pallies with good ret gear go respec since we had short DPS and an abundance of healers lol and he stuck me in his group hehe) and I never looked back...lost aggro twice due to knockbacks but got him right back after 15-20 secs and held him the rest of the time. But during the fight I was really noticeing how spikey the TPS was getting. I was getting anywhere from 200 to 1500 TPS. That's kinda why this got brought up. Addon that would average my TPS over the whole fight would be nice. That way I know without a doubt.

Cheers
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Postby corc » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:08 pm

Arcand wrote:I ran the numbers on this a while back and I think 630 threat per second is the equivalence point. If you're above that, use +2%. Below that use +20.

Edit: I can't find it now. But the reasoning went like this:

1 spell damage = 0.63 threat per second if you spam max-rank everything

20 spell damage = 12.6tps

If your generated threat is T, there's a point where adding 20 spell damage is equivalent to adding 2% to your threat, which gives us

T + 12.6 = 1.02 T

Solve for T and 630 pops out.


Think you got your numbers from the first stickie in this section.

Expanding on this:

328 is the base threat we do without +dam
630 - 328 = 302 tps needed

.63 TPS per +dam
302/.63 = ~479 +dam

So, get yourself 479 +dam on your target (easy to do with SoCr) and enchant with +threat to your gloves.

*very quick math there, check it yourself
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Postby Rainge » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:42 pm

Does anyone know if 2% threat is calculated before or after Righteous Fury? Seems like it would be good for AoE threat once your Consecrate was ticking for 100+ (20 SD providing about 2 damage/tick).
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Postby Noradin » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:26 am

Being a threat and not a dmg multiplicator it should add to righteous fury, causing your holydamage to do 192% aggro and nonholydamage 102% aggro.
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Postby Arcand » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:36 am

Noradin, any chance you could stack your sig bars vertically? When they're side by side they change the page width of the entire thread so I have to scroll sideways to read.
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Postby Rainge » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:47 am

Noradin wrote:Being a threat and not a dmg multiplicator it should add to righteous fury, causing your holydamage to do 192% aggro and nonholydamage 102% aggro.


If that's the case, I'll probably keep 20 SD on my gloves.
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Postby Tresjynn » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:08 am

Noradin wrote:Being a threat and not a dmg multiplicator it should add to righteous fury, causing your holydamage to do 192% aggro and nonholydamage 102% aggro.

Has this been tested and shown to do so? Because I've heard both interpretations.

Actually, come to think of it, the difference would be close in either case. (1.00 + 0.02) * 1.9 or (1.00 * 1.9) + 0.02 is a difference between 1.938 and 1.92. What would be the crossover points vs. +20 SD for both numbers?
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Postby DJSticky » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:41 am

Rainge wrote:
Noradin wrote:Being a threat and not a dmg multiplicator it should add to righteous fury, causing your holydamage to do 192% aggro and nonholydamage 102% aggro.


If that's the case, I'll probably keep 20 SD on my gloves.


As far as the benifit of 20 sd vs 2% threat it doesn't matter if it's additive or multiplicitive. The fact still remains 2% scales with your spell damage and +20 spell damage does not. The question of additive vs Multiplicitive is simply what is a rough approximation of the amount of spell damage when +2% becomes better.

I personaly put it on my gloves right away and will continue to put it on gloves I get in the future.
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Postby Mithos » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:43 pm

Been following this and wondering...

If I'm using 397+190 = 587 (gear/JotC) spell dmg or more, then 2% threat is clearly better from what I've been reading?
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Postby DJSticky » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:07 pm

mithoss wrote:Been following this and wondering...

If I'm using 397+190 = 587 (gear/JotC) spell dmg or more, then 2% threat is clearly better from what I've been reading?


Yes.

When I was making the decision for myself I just looked at it on an ability by ability basis. There were some high damage coeficient spells were 20 spell dmg was better but for across the board threat increase I decided 2% was the way to go not only because at the time it gave me better threat but it would grow with my spell damage.
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Postby corc » Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:01 am

mithoss wrote:Been following this and wondering...

If I'm using 397+190 = 587 (gear/JotC) spell dmg or more, then 2% threat is clearly better from what I've been reading?


scroll up a bit, there is an equation up there I posted that basically said any +dam above 479 would benefit more from +2% than from 20 more +dam.
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