Question about some tankadin talents in the expansion

[Mongarwer]

I read around, but i still don't get it
To clarify, i know solo/5 man and 10 man/25 man are different fields, i'm interested in solo/5man groups when i'm the only pala. So:

Why 5 point BoK? Shall we not use BoS?
Is HoJ really coming from PVP to PVE world?
Why is Divine Guardian skipped in peoples builds?
Why Imp Devo? Shall we not use Retri?
Has Reckoning became so useless?

[ulushnar]

1. BoK used to be 11-points, but it was moved to the bottom tier so that Holy and Ret Paladins could pick it up. It was too powerful for a 1-point investment, so they made it 5 points.

2. What? HoJ's useful as an interrupt.

3. It's not a main tanking talent. The last thing you want to do when you're MT is bubble, or take a bunch of addtional damage.

4. Improved Devo's useful if you don't have a Tree druid and the 50% extra armor is not to be sneezed at.

5. Yes it has. It no longer procs seals iirc and even if it did, Seal of Vengeance is relatively attack-speed agnostic.

[Worldie]

Those questions have been answered multiple times all around the topics

Making it short:

- BoK because we got filler points, and in 10 men "progression" you want BoK rather than BoS and it's not guaranteed you'll have a retri for it. For 5 men you can tecnically skip it.
- HoJ (and his improved version) are mainly taken because of the interrupt effect added. Most boss important skills are on 30+ seconds CD, so having HoJ on 30 seconds is a reliable interrupt
- Divine Guardian has 0 use if you are tanking, unless you plan to use Divine Shield which will if you remind drop aggro.
- Retri or Devo is a personal choice, little added threat, or little added mitigation and 6% more heals. Also, you need to put points somewhere, it's either here, stoicism or kings.
- Reckoning has close to 0 use for tanking since SoV became the tanking seal and it's not PPM anymore.

[majiben]

Why 5 point BoK? Shall we not use BoS?
That's for raids for the most part. 5 mans and solo you will likely use Sanc

Is HoJ really coming from PVP to PVE world?
For interupting. But if you're doing raids you won't likely see a need for it.

Why is Divine Guardian skipped in peoples builds?
Off tanking move becuase you can't use it without losing aggro.

Why Imp Devo? Shall we not use Retri?
In raids ret aura is better used in the hands of a ret pally. Also against any hard hitting mob (whether in TBC or WotLK) you use dev aura. Also the +6% healing is nice for any raid without a resto druid while the additional armor is not the selling part.

Has Reckoning became so useless?
Pretty much. SoV is the seal of choice now and reckoning doesn't benifit it much.

[Mongarwer]

First, i'm sorry for the noob questions Secondly, thank you for answering so fast

1. So BoK is in a way useless since you all said that it's not needed in 5 mans and 25 mans (there was a suggestion for using it in 10 mans so it's not completely, but it seems Devo is the better filler).

2. Wait, it shall be able to interrupt boss thingies? Nice

3. I don't know what was i thinking with this one

4. So for the area i have defined, go for retri + kings?

5. Shame.

Additional question:

1. Seals of the Pure: Will the dmg output make this talent worth taking?

And once again, thank you very much

[majiben]

1. So BoK is in a way useless since you all said that it's not needed in 5 mans and 25 mans (there was a suggestion for using it in 10 mans so it's not completely, but it seems Devo is the better filler).

Not useless per se but sanctuary's ability to drastically reduce down time makes it the blessing of choice for 5 mans and raid trash.

[KysenMurrin]

Additional question:

1. Seals of the Pure: Will the dmg output make this talent worth taking?

I'm not sold on SotP. Seal and Judgement damage is very low at the minute, not sure if the buff is worth it.

[Worldie]

It's not like you got many choices of where to put additional points however. SotP is worth 5 points much more than pretty much anything else you can get after you took the "baseline" prot talents.

[Aleph]

I read through a few other posts that mentioned Seals of the Pure but didn't see this mentioned: is the damage bonus before or after modifiers? The original Imp SoR was worthless because it was only calculated from the base damage, is that changed now?

[Snake-Aes]

Well, the 2.3 and 2.4 improved SoR was scaled. SotP probably is too.

[lythac]

1. So BoK is in a way useless since you all said that it's not needed in 5 mans and 25 mans (there was a suggestion for using it in 10 mans so it's not completely, but it seems Devo is the better filler).

Not useless per se but sanctuary's ability to drastically reduce down time makes it the blessing of choice for 5 mans and raid trash.

BoK is not useless for your 5 man party - Its what I would give squishy healers or caster dps. Fights are generally short and BoK would give more mana than BoW over the fight plus the added hp.

[Kilthanas]

- Reckoning has close to 0 use for tanking since SoV became the tanking seal and it's not PPM anymore.

I'm not convinced its absolutely worthless. Our white dps has gone up considerably and therefore reckoning procs will equal more white dmg. I'm still thinking of putting 1 point in there as I do now just to have the chance for a proc and extra dmg and threat. That said I certainly wouldn't sacrifice a good mitigation talent to get it and probably won't get it til close to 80.

[Snake-Aes]

- Reckoning has close to 0 use for tanking since SoV became the tanking seal and it's not PPM anymore.

I'm not convinced its absolutely worthless. Our white dps has gone up considerably and therefore reckoning procs will equal more white dmg. I'm still thinking of putting 1 point in there as I do now just to have the chance for a proc and extra dmg and threat. That said I certainly wouldn't sacrifice a good mitigation talent to get it and probably won't get it til close to 80.

Yet, there's more mileage from 1/5 benediction than x/5 reckoning(with x being a natural, non null number smaller than 6)
Think about it. White damage has no threat boost in comparison to holy damage.

[Kilthanas]

- Reckoning has close to 0 use for tanking since SoV became the tanking seal and it's not PPM anymore.

I'm not convinced its absolutely worthless. Our white dps has gone up considerably and therefore reckoning procs will equal more white dmg. I'm still thinking of putting 1 point in there as I do now just to have the chance for a proc and extra dmg and threat. That said I certainly wouldn't sacrifice a good mitigation talent to get it and probably won't get it til close to 80.

Yet, there's more mileage from 1/5 benediction than x/5 reckoning(with x being a natural, non null number smaller than 6)
Think about it. White damage has no threat boost in comparison to holy damage.

True. But our white dmg is what, 15% of our threat now with our wimpy caster weapons? I haven't done the number crunching and am not sure where to look it up quickly but if its a higher pct% then 1 point in reckoning might be a decent threat boost considering its only one point. Anybody know what % of a decently geared lvl 80 paladin's threat is the white melee dmg?

[Sabindeus]

- Reckoning has close to 0 use for tanking since SoV became the tanking seal and it's not PPM anymore.

I'm not convinced its absolutely worthless. Our white dps has gone up considerably and therefore reckoning procs will equal more white dmg. I'm still thinking of putting 1 point in there as I do now just to have the chance for a proc and extra dmg and threat. That said I certainly wouldn't sacrifice a good mitigation talent to get it and probably won't get it til close to 80.

Yet, there's more mileage from 1/5 benediction than x/5 reckoning(with x being a natural, non null number smaller than 6)
Think about it. White damage has no threat boost in comparison to holy damage.

Actually white damage has a 143% threat boost in comparison to Holy damage's 272% threat boost.