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Mitigation Comparisons – 4 tanks

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Postby snowwight » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:18 am

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Postby snowwight » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:19 am

I'd imagine the best way to do it would be to just pull the shield block uptime into a separate column or something.
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Postby Elsie » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:22 am

A few points:

1. Major props and thanks for working on this.

2. Is the discrepency between avoidance on gear accounted for?

3. I'm worried that stating Shield Block is supposed to be used as a "Mini Shield Wall" that an encounter might have abilities that give SB a massive advantage - essentually causing non-warriors to spike harder. eg, a periodic frenzy ability.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:24 am

snowwight wrote:Err, that's the crit block part. Shield Block also doubles your block value. That is probably why you're seeing paladins block more damage than warriors against a 40k/2.0 hit, which isn't the case sadly =(

Oh right, yes, that part isn't on the posted sheet, its been altered several times since I uploaded, Including fixing Exwu's issue.
Exewu wrote:All classes are using the paladins defense to calculate dodge.
Could you explain to me how exactly paladins and warriors have the same dodge when warriors have 349 dodge rating and pallies have 283, and both have equal agility? I know paladins gain more dodge from agility but is that really that high?

Apparently so, I was quite shocked too. Note Diminishing returns make them closer than they would be without.
dwarftank wrote:Does the model include Ardent Defender?

No, its hard to model accurately due to the leapfrog effect. I might try to model it inaccurately at some point.

dwarftank wrote:Is there a paladin libram and druid idol you could add to the model to balance the inclusion of the warrior ranged slot? It seems we should either include the gains from the possible extra item for all classes or for none, in terms of accuracy.

The sheet I'm working on now has the level 80 block libram active, with an equivelant ranged wep for the warrior. No sigils effect mitigation, and the only druid ones that do are much lower level.

dwarftank wrote:And lastly, could you start the Y-axis on all graphs at zero, so as not to exaggerate the visual difference in the relative space between the plot for each class.

Curses, I value aethetics! But will do.
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Postby Exewu » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:25 am

Elsie wrote:2. Is the discrepency between avoidance on gear accounted for?


As far as I can see, yes it is. You can see that paladins have a much lower parry and dodge rating. The fact that paladins get more dodge from agility seems to make up for the lack of dodge on our gear.

edit:
Am I correct in assuming that the *0,97 after damage taken comes from bos? if so, why don't druids and DK's have it?

edit2: nevermind I noticed they have it, I'm blind.
Last edited by Exewu on Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rhî » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:43 am

And this thread should be sticky.
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Postby Elsie » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:46 am

Rhî wrote:And this thread should be sticky.

Seconded. Especially since Ziggy is accepting feedback and improving the model.

edit: adding here to avoid postspamming

The last model has us taking overall 3-7% more damage. If a mob is like Brutallus, wouldn't think be an actual concern? 7% more damage per hit would be on the order of 700 mainhand / 455 offhand in stomp. We'd need around 2000 HP more than a warrior to think about equivalency during a frenzy/stomp/enrage/insert special.

Yes, that's a "what if" or "worst case" scenario. But with patchwerk, future bosses, etc, I think it's a viable concern if our HP doesn't buffer the mitigation difference - assuming the mitigation difference stays.

So since avoidance seems rather equivalent, my concern are:
1. Effective Health (via block value and hit points)
2. Burst Potential (due to boss abilities where SB is overly strong)
Last edited by Elsie on Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Lore » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:47 am

Splat.
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Postby Fizzgig » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:48 am

Tanks lore. (edit: lol typo but its staying in!)

Also has anyone reposted this up on the beta forums yet? I just hope its not another one of the great posts that fade into nothingness with people complaining over there.
Last edited by Fizzgig on Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Racolus » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:49 am

Support stickying this.

Whether or not the graphs are true, it at least gimme some faith to carry on. :wink:
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Postby snowwight » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:49 am

Fizzgig wrote:Tanks lore. (edit: lol typo but its staying in!)

Also has anyone reposted this up on the beta forums yet? I just hope its not another one of the great posts that fade into nothingness with people complaining over there.


Err, let's get the numbers correct before we post it on the forums.
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Postby Fizzgig » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:53 am

Ah, true.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:00 am

cheers for the sticky o/

I'd definitely want base stats to take this further. It has quite an impact on overall health, and it feels somewhat incomplete without it.

Can anyone help there?
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Postby snowwight » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:02 am

I have a 70 druid and a 62 DK, but no 80s of either. I do have a dwarf warrior and a human paladin at 80, but I think you have their base already.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:12 am

I do, but I'd most appreciate confirmation (I believe mine are human examples) if you can easily access.
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