Mitigation Comparisons – 4 tanks

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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:49 am

Sheherezade wrote:how does DKs fit in with all this? or is it too complicated to fit in with all their cooldown abilities? :)
The idea seems that they'll keep a mitigation cooldown up at every moment, or if there's predictable bigger damage incoming, proc a couple at once.

It's inherently flawed in that you must have as good uptime as you can on mitigation cooldowns, but it seems to work so far.
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Postby Pizbit » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:54 am

(one glyph across two classes effecting mitigation = http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=43425) and filling in the ranged slot (Initially left out as sigils and idols don't have equivelants)


That was has class tag warrior on it, do we have an equivelent that you didn't link, or didn't you notice? :)
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Postby snowwight » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:00 am

Err, what's with the .96 modifier on bears? Shouldn't that be .88?
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:01 am

2ndNin wrote:So GC is right, we are within a few %... just always negative.

OOC, can you run simulations giving RF 8/10% mitigation, altering Ardent to be something like 20% reduction under 50%, and similar changes? Lets see what actually brings those two lines into somekind of wavy union.

Ooh, good call.

AD was something I wanted to look at, as personally I'd take that over 2% raw overall (The amount of times I've closed my eyes and lived despite lack of healing and low health, I enjoy gambling.) but it's not something that models easily.

I'll have a pop at representing it as you say.

Pizbit wrote:
(one glyph across two classes effecting mitigation = http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=43425) and filling in the ranged slot (Initially left out as sigils and idols don't have equivelants)


That was has class tag warrior on it, do we have an equivelent that you didn't link, or didn't you notice? :)

We don't sadly, all our glyphs are threat/utility. As I understand it, threat at present is well beyond whats actively required, making our tanking glyphs a bit mediocre, we'll see, can't imagine we're suppose threat isn't supposed to matter with all the threat stats now on gear.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 am

snowwight wrote:Err, what's with the .96 modifier on bears? Shouldn't that be .88?

correct, cheers

updating!

Theres also a linking flaw in the posted sheet, to do with dodge and defence. I'll update the savefile too.
Last edited by ziggyunderslashone on Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby snowwight » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:06 am

Also, while I'm nitpicking, I can't seem to find the doubled block value portion of shield block anywhere. On the other hand, I'm not good with spreadsheets ;)
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Postby Lore » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:07 am

Just wanted to say, I fully expected to come into this thread and see nothing but angry arguing about who's the best tank etc, and instead I saw one of the most useful and informative threads I've seen in weeks.

I'm so proud! *sniff*
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:08 am

Lore wrote:Just wanted to say, I fully expected to come into this thread and see nothing but angry arguing about who's the best tank etc, and instead I saw one of the most useful and informative threads I've seen in weeks.

I'm so proud! *sniff*
<3

I can't look in details on the spreadsheet right now =( Or else I would have posted more questions. At first glance, however, the block numbers were a bit off. Why is that?
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:11 am

snowwight wrote:Also, while I'm nitpicking, I can't seem to find the doubled block value portion of shield block anywhere. On the other hand, I'm not good with spreadsheets ;)

(((40000*C27)-J9*1.3)*C18)

that bit. 1*0.7+2*0.3 = 1.3

I might change that actually, visually it might help to see how much is being stopped through critical blocks.
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Postby snowwight » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:12 am

Just to throw another ratchet into the mix, I think modus discovered the following values which I used in my simulator:
Normal Block 1.3
Crit Block 2.6
Shield Block 2.3
Crit Shield Block 4.6

Kind of unintuitive.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:13 am

Snake-Aes wrote:At first glance, however, the block numbers were a bit off. Why is that?

Whereabouts?
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Postby snowwight » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:14 am

ziggyunderslashone wrote:
snowwight wrote:Also, while I'm nitpicking, I can't seem to find the doubled block value portion of shield block anywhere. On the other hand, I'm not good with spreadsheets ;)

(((40000*C27)-J9*1.3)*C18)

that bit. 1*0.7+2*0.3 = 1.3

I might change that actually, visually it might help to see how much is being stopped through critical blocks.


Err, that's the crit block part. Shield Block also doubles your block value. That is probably why you're seeing paladins block more damage than warriors against a 40k/2.0 hit, which isn't the case sadly =(
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Postby Exewu » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:14 am

All classes are using the paladins defense to calculate dodge.
Could you explain to me how exactly paladins and warriors have the same dodge when warriors have 349 dodge rating and pallies have 283, and both have equal agility? I know paladins gain more dodge from agility but is that really that high?
Last edited by Exewu on Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dwarftank » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:15 am

Great post, thanks. Interesting enough to get me to register finally.

I can't view the spreadsheet atm so would like to ask about a few points.

Does the model include Ardent Defender?

Is there a paladin libram and druid idol you could add to the model to balance the inclusion of the warrior ranged slot? It seems we should either include the gains from the possible extra item for all classes or for none, in terms of accuracy.

And lastly, could you start the Y-axis on all graphs at zero, so as not to exaggerate the visual difference in the relative space between the plot for each class.

Great post though, looking forward to seeing updates of the graphs as minor updates are made to the model.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:17 am

snowwight wrote:Just to throw another ratchet into the mix, I think modus discovered the following values which I used in my simulator:
Normal Block 1.3
Crit Block 2.6
Shield Block 2.3
Crit Shield Block 4.6

Kind of unintuitive.

Crikey, yeah that wouldn't be very straightforward. Do you have a link? I try to multiple source things.
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