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Shades of Karazhan

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby masterpoobaa » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:01 pm

hehehe.
its like that with me now.

With the stablehands and horses on the way to attumen we used ot religiously shackle.
Last night i was tanking them all at once.

Was only a partial run, did attumen, morose, oz, curator and nightbane.
I got 3rd on the dps charts. As MT.
Wheeeeee
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Postby Makaijin » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:10 pm

I actually saw the enrage once a long time ago. It was like our 3rd week on aran. Because of our noobness learning the fight back then, we somehow ended up with 5 including myself dead. So the rest like a good sport kept going with all 3 healers still alive and our then very crap dps. At 12 mins into the fight with like 5% hp left he spawned like 6 extra copies of himself and then proceeded wtfaoepwn the rest of us. We were all like WTF while at the same time gutted because we were so close to downing him again.
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Postby Losbullitt » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:38 pm

omg...

never saw shade do that.

however I did cause a wipe once with the wreath flame thing. I moved to heal and suddenly everyone was hit for like 5k.

I was offhealing too. ><
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Postby Losbullitt » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:40 pm

ldeboer wrote:
Losbullitt wrote:Ran Kara thursday night.

Oddly with holy shield up, I was crushed. Moroes nailed me for 5k damage. :shock:


Were you incapacitated at the time?
He does a gouge or if the adds were still up the pally's stun.

Holy shield up or not in that situation you get crushed because your avoidance is zero.

And 5K is a small hit as far as bosses go.


I don't believe that I was incapacitated.
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Postby Ghort » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:10 pm

Feyray wrote:
Guild logic seems foreign to me at times. On one hand, you have an amazing set of healers, all epic, +1200 healing and a knack for spamming flash heals to keep the tanks up. Yet the entire dps portion consists of people who score less than 250 on the dps chart and have more greens than the federal reserve. On top of that, it seems ok to plow through trash mobs knowing this, only to wipe at Curator five times, never taking him down to anything less than 94%, not even setting him up for evocation and the downtime burn.


I quit the guild I was raiding SSC/TK with on my warlocks old server because of this very reason. My first time into Kara I was doing a trial run with that same guild and I topped the damage charts (affliction doesn't realy measure dps, it measures overall damage. I think dps was around 6-700ish). The only one that gave me competition was the Kara geard rogue, who I eventually surpassed.

I'm new to tanking (and all forms of melee realy) but I've been playing various dps classes, mostly caster, for over 2 yrs. I KNOW how to dps. 250 dps? GTFO. I did more than that on my hunter at 62. I do more than that on this pally on any instance I tank. I had a mid lvl 60 ely shaman I grouped with the other day in SP that did over 400. I've seen a frost mage that had all blues and greens walk into Kara for the first time and do 900 dps. 250 dps from dps classes is not just a gear problem, thats a skill problem. I assure you all the purps in the world arn't going to help that player significantly.

The vast majority of dpsers I hate to say just suck. It doesnt help that gl/rl have a very low standard either, and that dpsers are considered to be a dime a dozen. Then again, good...REALY good dpsers... are so rare that you don't realy have anything to compare to.

It's hard to give you a standard guide line because what is required varies on class and spec but a warlock, especially affliction, the base minimum is I think 7k health and 800 spell damage and roughly 70 hit i think (it's been a long time sorry). I went in with roughly 700...but I was good and knew how to play my class. Destro locks arn't considered the "optimal" spec for entry level Kara. Not to say that they "can't" dps it's just not optimal because it's very hard to get the gear to support that spec pre kara. Casters, unlike melee and hunters, have no main stat (intel, stam, agil, spirit) that increases our dps. Their dps comes from all the little green stats at the bottome, spell damage hit and crit (affliction doesn't stack crit. If they do they fail) Greens, even in OL gives very little of these compared to blues. Odds are if they have much over 8 k health they've sacrificed too much of these.

Basically there realy is no reason why a dpser, especially if they have the gear from heorics, can't hit 800 dps. 600=800 should cover all dps classes (mage lock hunter and rogues) anything lower than that, they're a scrub in my book. Like I said it's hard to give specifics cause it varies a bit from class to class and spec, but hopefully tht should give you a generalization of what too look for. I know tanks and healers are used to dragging poor dpsers a long, and that might work in normal instances...but by Kara they need to step up to the plate or else it won't matter how good your tanks and healers are geared.


Seriously? I would of kicked those bastards from my raid group so quick their head would of spun... my 58 mage puts out 260dps frost specced.

Like others have said, i could care less if they arent decked out in epics or even blues, just as long as they know what hit rating does for them and can at least throw up some decent numbers for spell damage/attk power. As I first heard on here, usually people who know they need spell hit/hit are the people you want in your raid. As for what they need, its 210 for direct damage dps (or something close) to hit cap - most people just starting kara arent gonna have that... and 94 if your mainly using dots. I'm not so sure on the hit raiting for the melee DPS, but if i remember correctly its something similar... but remember with those numbers they should have talent points into it or it'll be higher
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Postby Kelaan » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:47 pm

Feyray wrote:I'm new to tanking (and all forms of melee realy) but I've been playing various dps classes, mostly caster, for over 2 yrs. I KNOW how to dps. 250 dps? GTFO. I did more than that on my hunter at 62. I do more than that on this pally on any instance I tank.


DPS under 400 can GTFO indeed. Heck, 500 is autoshots + pet for a hunter, practiaclly. Those DPS have to be both undergeared and complete brain donors. You would have better luck PUGing it, leading it yourself and doing Armory checks.

I think I do more than 250 DPS when I'm in "ret" gear while prot specced, doing loldps.

Double check that your meter was correct -- ask for some logs and make a WWS next time. Then, take your ranged DPS to Dr. Boom and ensure that you won't invite them until they can break 500-600 DPS. (Spriests may have problems getting in range? I don't know.)

By the Light, how in the blazes can anyone do that poorly in DPS? You have to almost TRY to scrwe up that badly.
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Postby Kelaan » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:50 pm

ldeboer wrote:We did it in greens and blues with 350-400 dps and withoutout all the crap nerfs ... its doable it just needs you to learn the skills you should have to raid higher instances anyhow.


Was it really that low? OK, I stand corrected then. :) I seemed to remember doing ~700-800 in my D3-geared hunter back in the day, but my memory is notoriously faulty.
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Postby kysu » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:05 am

Ya that dps is sad. 400 to 450 min for me to take you. My old main was a hunter and I did everything I could to make him the best I could. I was in blues doing 600 no problem and he was MM at the time.
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Postby EsVachel » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:01 am

Rule when I'm in kara. If I out dps you, you don't come back. I run ~500spelldmg on my pally tank, and 900spelldmg on my lolsmite healer. I'm not setting the bar high but people still fail me.

So sad.

Also, to answer your question. If curator blocked you nightbane would have had your hearts on a platter. Replace your DPS, try again.
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Postby Belarkan » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:46 am

Losbullitt wrote:
ldeboer wrote:
Losbullitt wrote:Ran Kara thursday night.

Oddly with holy shield up, I was crushed. Moroes nailed me for 5k damage. :shock:


Were you incapacitated at the time?
He does a gouge or if the adds were still up the pally's stun.

Holy shield up or not in that situation you get crushed because your avoidance is zero.

And 5K is a small hit as far as bosses go.


I don't believe that I was incapacitated.


Moroes is a two hander and suffers penalty from it as far as I noticed.
If you've been crushed, either you were OT in which case he can hit you before you set holy shield up either you were incapacited either HS charges went away due to a bad block string.
From time to time, it can also happen that you get crushed in the HS refresh time (ie, between the end of the CD and the time the server gets your key pressed) but it really doesn't happen often unless you're asleep or lagging a lot.
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Postby Losbullitt » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:31 pm

latency is between 4-600. It could've been the latency but I don't think it was. At this point I don't really care. I've upped my hp slightly, got the spell damage mace (370 spell damage - w00t!) and cleared kara with another guild.

When I'm lvl 80, I'm gonna 3 man this place. :o
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Postby majiben » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:21 pm

You might be able to 2 man it with two ret pallies.
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