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So where do i go from here?

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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So where do i go from here?

Postby Solunshinto » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:01 am

Im trying to decide what direction to push my gear, Im having trouble deciding to keep staming up or to work on avoidance or heck even more spell damage, i really dont know how to get further myself in the correct way.
Reason why im asking is that i do wanna be a MT other than kara. Ive tanked all fights in kara aside from nightbane. Ive tanked attune/midnight at the same time by myself, tanked romeo and juleiet at the same time by myself and illhoof and his imp the same way.
I do know of many people including my Gm of the guild whom says that this guild has no place for a prot pally, Since hes been away i switched from ret to prot.
So in closing I need to figure out how to improve myself so that i can show him that prot pallys are a good choice of a tank instead of the normal warrior tank.

Ps I currently have 13197 Hp and uncrittable/uncrushable unbuffed

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... olunshinto
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Postby Vanifae » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:07 am

Is your guild moving into the next tier?
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Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:13 am

Frankly it doesn't matter what you do if your GM/Raid Leader doesn't believe you're useful as prot; if they don't think you're useful, they won't use you and it won't matter what gear you have if you're not part of the raid.

Speaking generally, you need to pump stam for survivability in new encounters.
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Postby Solunshinto » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:13 am

Yes my guild is pushing into SSC, mind you we normally 1 shot void reaver every week, but cant seem to get Mag down.

So far we have got lurker down, and nothing else in SSC

But pretty much in 25 man raids im usually stuck tanking adds and no bosses really :(
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Re: So where do i go from here?

Postby guillex » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:15 am

Solunshinto wrote:Im trying to decide what direction to push my gear, Im having trouble deciding to keep staming up or to work on avoidance or heck even more spell damage, i really dont know how to get further myself in the correct way.
Reason why im asking is that i do wanna be a MT other than kara. Ive tanked all fights in kara aside from nightbane. Ive tanked attune/midnight at the same time by myself, tanked romeo and juleiet at the same time by myself and illhoof and his imp the same way.
I do know of many people including my Gm of the guild whom says that this guild has no place for a prot pally, Since hes been away i switched from ret to prot.
So in closing I need to figure out how to improve myself so that i can show him that prot pallys are a good choice of a tank instead of the normal warrior tank.

Ps I currently have 13197 Hp and uncrittable/uncrushable unbuffed

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... olunshinto

I'm hoping that you'll be able to change people's minds about the next encounters ... If you still see them resisting, you may want to look for the thread that discusses and lists what Pally tanks bring to a raid, and our pros and cons.

If it doesn't go well, start shopping for a new guild. I know I'm going to like the one that I'm in, as before I tanked a bit of Kz last night I was told by a few people that they couldn't wait to DPS behind me, and the GM/RLs let me try 4 attempts on Prince ... still in blues with 3 epics.

They have all said that they don't really know the mechanics of pally tanking, so I'll be showing them, helping them out, and guiding them here to read the more important posts and stickies. Try and get through to people, especially if the guild isn't min/maxing, but just saying "prot pallies are LOL, respec holy and l2p" because one of the top guilds in the world says it.


EDIT: Oops, posted after you guys replied, sorry... :oops:

I'd say, honestly, take a look at that thread I mentioned ... I can't remember where it is, but someone will post it, I'm sure.
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Postby Solunshinto » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:20 am

Oh trust me i know i am not worthless for tanking, I think its superior to warriors despite them having oh crap buttons(last stand shield wall)

Despite my continuing tanking, i cant seem to convince them to give me a shot, especially the gm, who is the type where Warriors are tanks , druids are tanks, pallys are not tanks or dps they are healbots, and thats pretty much it.

Other than that little rant there, Is there anything i need to work on besides getting alittle more stam?

Edit// Im not trying to sound like i wanna be MT or nothing, im just really curious what i need to improve to even get a good shot at it
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Postby guillex » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:43 am

Solunshinto wrote:Oh trust me i know i am not worthless for tanking, I think its superior to warriors despite them having oh crap buttons(last stand shield wall)

Despite my continuing tanking, i cant seem to convince them to give me a shot, especially the gm, who is the type where Warriors are tanks , druids are tanks, pallys are not tanks or dps they are healbots, and thats pretty much it.

Other than that little rant there, Is there anything i need to work on besides getting alittle more stam?

Edit// Im not trying to sound like i wanna be MT or nothing, im just really curious what i need to improve to even get a good shot at it


Nobody's sayin' you're worthless bud. :P

I'd say, first and foremost, get rid of Guardian's Favour, as you have one point left over, and max out precision. You might even want to look at freeing up some points in 1h spec, and go 3/5 WEx (There's a discussion about that somewhere on the boards). Having an unused point is quite worthless to your cause when there are a bunch of talents that could help you out greatly.

You may want to start looking at making a couple of sets of gear, one for block, one for avoidance, and a threat gen set. Sooner or later, block gets pushed off the table first, so if you can start replacing block with dodge or even parry, while maintaining uncrushable status, you're golden (hence the different sets... trash clearing = block set, some bosses = threat gen (or for add tanking), most bosses = avoidance set).

Unfortunately, if they're not giving you a chance at 13k hp/15k armor unbuffed, they're scrubs. Conversely, pallies are (for the moment) situational tanks. I'm NOT saying that we're always situational tanks, far from it. We can tank pretty much everything from Kz to MH/BT. It's just that, for each encounter, a different type of tank might be used. Take Al'ar... Having a pally tank on the boss itself would be fine ... but what about having that same pally tank round up adds to be AoE'd, clearing them faster and allowing DPS to focus on the bird itself? Or Tidewalker and his murlocs... Sure, we can tank him... But again, why not have a pally tank round up all the murlocs, put the groups in AoE range of Tidewalker himself, and let the AoE groups go completely nuts?
(This entire paragraph takes into account your statement of not wanting to be MT ... just a small explanation of why your GM/RLs may be putting you on add duty... But, tbh, ALWAYS having a pally tank on add duty is NOT fair, especially if you've put in the time and effort to build up your set and get ready. Point them to warcraftmovies.com, and Linadillar's pally tanking video. It might open their eyes.)
You should be able to prove yourself to your GM/RLs now. If they're being min/maxers... there's not much else you can do but find a new guild.
Last edited by guillex on Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Solunshinto » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:54 am

Well i really do thank you for your reply, and as to my missing 1 talent point, i just respeced back to prot cause i was doing arena this weekend.

Alright from your advice you recommend dropping guardians favour and picking up precision, but what i dont understand is why you said to move points from 1 handed spec.. Since it works for all damage you deal not just 1 hand.

If i had to move points wouldnt it be best to take points of reckoning? since it seems almost useless boss tanking(kara standpoint)plus the added threat of having an attack parryed.

And as to my guild trying to give me a chance, ive been trying for quite some time, and the sad part about it is that they are neglecting to give me a shot even though im an officer....

I suppose i could start working on multiple sets, the one im wearing is universal set imo. Been trying to build a mitigation set, but kara drops arent happening, and im constantly number crunching to make sure im uncrushable still
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Postby guillex » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:59 am

You don't really need to number crunch ... There's a macro on here that you can use to check uncrushability .. .Just pop HS and hit the macro. It tells you in your chat window what you're at.

I'm not sure about moving points from 1h spec or Reckoning to WEx .. .I just know that for non-humans, WEx is a better way to go. Do a search for Weapon expertize, you should get a hit on the discussion.

Edit:

Found it... And it's from Precision to WEx. lol. I'm a tard, sorry.

http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/viewtopic.php?t=1894
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Postby Brighid » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:40 am

Your dodge is a little low for my tastes, but I'll put that aside to me being bias to the stat :P

Other than that, your gear is definitely SSC worthy. If you work towards sets like resists for Hydross (make sure you discuss with other tanks what sets they're doing/what role you want to do beforehand) and put forth the effort to run with the other tanks, you should have it. SSC is a great place for us because there are so many fights that make a person say "Wow, I'm glad we had a prot pally"

For Hydross you can do either 2 adds or Hydross safely (remember to use avengers shield, he can't crush)

For Lurker you're just another add tank

For Leotheras you're invaluable with avenger's shield picking him up

For Tidewalker you're a beast and a half tanking murlocs

For Karathress your multiple threat capabilities and the fact that you can sponge a sting make you an amazing tank on the hunter.

and vashj we're pretty important to BoF the MT or be the MT ourselves, divine shielding out of stuns and neat stuff like that.

Something I've noticed though, my guild's starting to catch up in threat. My spell damage is sitting at about 270 unbuffed, and on trash I can even get passed in threat by offtanks if they have enough rage from the adds.
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Postby Kayallah » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:44 pm

Brighid wrote:
Something I've noticed though, my guild's starting to catch up in threat. My spell damage is sitting at about 270 unbuffed, and on trash I can even get passed in threat by offtanks if they have enough rage from the adds.



I notice a lot of times my warrior tanks taunt off me.. which is kinda annoying on trash. :-/ Not really sure why they do it. But I can see them do it.
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