the 3 second rule.

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the 3 second rule.

Postby Soulbreaker » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:01 am

Ok had an issue with a Shaman healer the other day both in Kara and in hero BF. In both instances whenever I engage in battle versus 2 or more mobs (trash) I die in about 10 seconds.
When i run hero SP / mech with my usual priest healer I can happily AoE tank most everything no worries.

The difference I think is that the priest spam heals me non stop and the shaman, I suspect, is using the old 3 second rule.

Before I say anything to him about it I would like some info. I have read here that the 3 second rule is no longer used in TBC because it just doesn't work.

Can I have the reason why it doesn't work so when I speak to him about it I can offer some facts to him as to why he should be spamming me and forgetting the 3 second rule.
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Postby Worldie » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:57 am

Its simple, when you take shitloads of damages, you NEED spamheals, no matter what's the healer.
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Postby Sharlos » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:01 am

Question: what is the 3 second rule?

From the sounds of it, this rule pertains to not healing your target for three seconds after the pull has happened. Which sounds like an awfully stupid idea. One should base how much they heal for on the targets current health, and the targets expected damage intake.
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Postby Pizbit » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:16 am

*puts on mixed resto shaman and tankadin hat*

W.t.f is a 3 second rule?
If it's as described above, then they're on crack.
Heals should land just after you get hit pretty much.
Healing Wave is a 2.5sec cast talented, if they wait 3 seconds then that's effectively 6 seconds from the start of a pull with no heals(due to human reaction to counting to 3 etc)

I honestly can't figure out where/why any healer would wait exactly 3 seconds without smoking crack, and since I'm all out of crack I'm at a loss.
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Postby Goodheart » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:26 am

Maybe you mean the 5 second rule?
Whenever you finish a cast, mana regen *from spirit* will stop for 5 seconds. Since shaman healers *should* be hoarding mp5 instead of spirit, it doesn't affect a shaman. And also, a shaman is pretty bad with spamhealing, so that might be the case as well.
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Postby Pizbit » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:28 am

If the 5sr, then my comment still stands.
Shamans can handle it if they gear properly(same as any class), they're just not as efficient as priests etc:(
Sorta like paladins and tanking.
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Postby Ocin » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:54 am

Pizbit wrote:If the 5sr, then my comment still stands.
Shamans can handle it if they gear properly(same as any class), they're just not as efficient as priests etc:(
Sorta like paladins and tanking.


i dunno, i think i'm pretty efficient...i try anyway
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Postby Soulbreaker » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:59 am

The 3 second rule IIRC goes something like;

combat starts (pull), you heal
wait 3 seconds,
heal again
rinse repeat.

I think it was important pre TBC and had to do with mana regen.

But it just seemed to me when I looked at my Eavesdrop info that I was only getting 2 heals in ~10 seconds which saw me running back from the graveyard.

So I was thinking he was going,

Combat starts (pull), he does nothing
I start taking damage down to ~50% hp
he heals,
waits 3 seconds,
heals again,
waits 3 seconds oops you're dead already,
Man Pally tanks suck.
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Postby Nymeros » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:33 am

There is no 3 second rule. There's a 5 second rule, and it really only applied to raid instances and never 5 mans.

After 5 seconds of not casting anything, your mana regen from Spirit kicks in each tick. In the old days, when you had 40 man raids, a Priest or Druid could stop healing for 10-15 seconds for some mana regeneration.

Shamans, like Paladins, don't use Spirit and instead stack mp5 making this practice useless. Heck, the practice is useless for Healing Touch - Restoration Druids (Dreamstate healing build) who stack Intellect/Mp5. It only benefits Tree Druids and Holy/Disc (not Disc/Holy as much) Priests.

It's also can be a stupid practice when a tank is in dire need of healing; chug a damn mana potion (not always the expensive ones, keep a reserve of cheap mana potions too).

As for the OP, it sounds like the Shaman's player has either very poor reaction time, bad gearing, or is set up into a particular healing style that is not effective.

Shaman heals don't have the same raw power as a Druid's does, but they buff their own heals on the tank by 15% (you should be having 3 lvl1 heals being cast on you right before any hard pull to stack the buff) and a 30% armor bonus on the tank from any healing crit. They can also heal melee dps without ever switching from tank healing due to Chain Heal (the most overpowered raid-healing spell in the game).
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Postby Soulbreaker » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:41 am

My bad then 5 seconds not 3. I'll find out how he specced, he may be trying to heal in Elemental spec for all I know.
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Postby Mithos » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:03 pm

Whatever this rule is, if youre dieing from it consistantly, he shouldn't follow it. If it's "I'll wait 3 seconds before healing", tell him to do that on Maulgar (or something that hit really hard fast) and see where it gets him ><.
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Postby Rainge » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:14 am

Some people call it the three-second rule because if you wait three seconds after ending a cast, then start another, you're almost guaranteed to get that one full tick after the five-second rule ends a moment before your next heal lands.

You can't do that in heroics anymore, and really not in raids, either. When the tank is taking a pounding, you have to heal.
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Postby Madmordigan » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:25 am

I'm sorry, but water and mana potions are far cheaper than party repair bills.
Any healer that is trying to skimp on mana usage AND letting the tank/party/self die needs to have a friendly chit chat on the side.

I mean, personally, on runs, it's not an interesting pull unless I end up using innervate ;) yeah, I know, shamans don't have innervate... but even still...

For raid boss fights, I'm drinking a potion the first 3k mana I'm down... and yes, that does mean I go through a LOT of mana potions by the end of the night... but what is epic flight form and herbalism for? *cough*

Sorry, back to the topic.

Sounds like teh Shaman is losing focus of what is important: Keeping the Tank/Party alive.

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Postby Pizbit » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:21 pm

Shamans get mana tide totem, 5 min cooldown which regenerates 24% of everyone in the party's mana over 12 seconds.
(Eg. 10k mana? get 2.4k ish back, pally tank with 4k mana? gets just under 1k)
On bosses and raiding I drop mana tide at 75% mana, then pot when I hit 75% again and rotate mana tide/pots as soon as their cooldown is up, no matter what % the boss is at-- mainly because I'm only looking at greens bars :D
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Postby Jarkeld » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:36 pm

Using the 3 second rule for mana regeneration? um...
hmm, 5 seconds after you end your last cast, you start to regen mana from spirit, so you cast a spell, wait 3 seconds, then cast your next one(let's say it's 2-3 seconds long), sounds kinda like a way to ensure you get the worst mana regeneration possible, don't it?
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