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The effects of Weapon Skill

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The effects of Weapon Skill

Postby Joanadark » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:09 am

It seems pretty clear from the elitist jerks research that:

Against any mob that is lv 72 or lower, each pt of weapon skill does:
.1% hit, some amount of dodge reduction that is likely .2%, some amount of crit that is around .04%.


Against a boss mob (73), it does:
Some amount of dodge reduction that is likely .2%, some amount of crit that is around .04%, and a hit bonus that is not linear, and goes like this:

Weapon skill pt #351: .4% to hit!
Weapon skill pt #352: .4% to hit!
Weapon skill pt #353: .4% to hit!
Weapon skill pt #354: .4% to hit!
Weapon skill pt #355: 1.4% to hit!!!!

And then all future weapon skill points give .1% hit (and the dodge/crit)


Essentially:

If a mob has a defense rating that is more than 10 above your weapon skill, the for each point beyond 10, there is a penalty to hit of .4% in stead of .1%. Additionally, there is an added 1% hit penalty if the mob is more than 11 above you. So this results in the first 5 points of weapon skill you gain, vs a boss, giving .4%, .4%, .4%, .4%, 1.4% reduction in misses.


Your base miss chance with no weapon skill is:
Lv 70: 5%
Lv 71: 5.5%
Lv 72: 6%
Lv 73: 9%
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Postby Delorean » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:50 am

Human racial ftw?
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Postby Gideon » Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:42 am

Intriguing. Would you be able to put this in a table showing the effects of weapon skill from 350-365 on miss, dodge and parry versus a level 73 mob?

I've not been following the EJ thread closely (I know when I'm out of my mathematical depth) but the few posts I did read seemed to ignore parry.
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Postby Nidal » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:25 am

So three points in Precision is still superior to three points in Weapon Expertise as far as +to hit goes?

But those same three points in WE would also help with dodge/crit/parry chance?

Obviously it looks like 5 points of WE is superior to 3 in Precision, but that is expected for 2 extra points.

Hmm, I may just have to drop Spell Warding...4% damage reduction never impressed me anyway.
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Postby Jarkeld » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:02 am

Weapon skill seems to have very little effect on parrying, at least when bosses are concerned.
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Postby Shallira » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:04 am

The first 3 points in Weapon Expertise are better than 3 points in Precision. 3.1% hit and misc. stuff versus 3% hit. But that's only if you aren't a human. If you're a human, Precision is better because you already have the 5 weapon skill from racials and 3 points in WE would be 0.6% hit and the other shtuff versus 3% hit.
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Postby Sharlos » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:17 am

Shallira wrote:The first 3 points in Weapon Expertise are better than 3 points in Precision. 3.1% hit and misc. stuff versus 3% hit. But that's only if you aren't a human. If you're a human, Precision is better because you already have the 5 weapon skill from racials and 3 points in WE would be 0.6% hit and the other shtuff versus 3% hit.


Isn't that comparison only true when facing a level 73 mob? So those three points are only better spent when facing bosses.

On a side note, is the effectivness of three points in weapon skill diminished if you also have three points in precision. Basicly, do those two talents stack?
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Postby qwyn » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:20 am

could you please toss up a link to the elitist jerks thread on this math? i'm having the damndist time finding it...
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Postby Everlight » Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:03 pm

Darkshadow201068 wrote:On a side note, is the effectivness of three points in weapon skill diminished if you also have three points in precision. Basicly, do those two talents stack?


They stack. Base miss is 9%, so you aren't going to reach the hit cap on a 73 with WE and Precision alone. I have 5/5 WE and 3/3 Precision, and I get about 1% misses on 73's.

(I'm non-human).
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Postby Everlight » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:52 pm

Jarkeld wrote:Weapon skill seems to have very little effect on parrying, at least when bosses are concerned.


I'm seeing about a 2% reduction in both parrying and dodging from bosses, with 5/5 WE as a non-human.

That's an additional 4% hit, basically, and the reduction in parries is really valuable considering the implications that has for the bosses' autoattack.
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Postby Fridmarr » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:46 pm

Everlight wrote:
Jarkeld wrote:Weapon skill seems to have very little effect on parrying, at least when bosses are concerned.


I'm seeing about a 2% reduction in both parrying and dodging from bosses, with 5/5 WE as a non-human.

That's an additional 4% hit, basically, and the reduction in parries is really valuable considering the implications that has for the bosses' autoattack.


A rather significant amount of testing showed that it reduced dodges, but parry's had no measurable effect. I suppose that's not 100% solid proof but the data that's been posted seems pretty solid. I did a little of my own testing comparing WWS parses with 3/3 precision vs 3/3 WE. They actually showed no measurable difference for anything at all, which is reasonable for my sample size and how small the differences would be.
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Postby Everlight » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:59 am

Fridmarr wrote:A rather significant amount of testing showed that it reduced dodges, but parry's had no measurable effect. I suppose that's not 100% solid proof but the data that's been posted seems pretty solid.


As a human, or non-human? I'm seeing across the board reductions in parries on ALL bosses with 5/5 WE as a non-human.

I've done a fair bit of digging on WWStats for these kind of figures, mostly examining logs from Horde warriors, so we can be sure we're not getting info from Humans by accident. The majority of the logs show parry rate around the 14-15% mark for level 73s. There's a few oddballs in there if you go digging, however most of the time further examination shows the tanks involved usually have Weapon Mastery and a weapon that gives them weapon skill.

As for me, I'm seeing a consistent reduction in Parries done by mobs. I'm not talking fractions of a percent, and I'm not talking sometimes being lower than the base 15%ish figure, I'm talking being quite a lot lower - like 10-12% instead of 14-15%.

The testing that was done on Venoxis does not match up at all with what I'm seeing. And whilst I hate pulling the "pre-TBC" card, it might be justifiable here.
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Postby Ashes » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:44 am

I haven't seen anyone mention this but when I tested this spec with Weapon Expertise... I gained a significant amount of +Parry like 2-3%. That was helpful in making sure I was uncrushable.
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Postby enbee » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:51 am

Ashes wrote:I haven't seen anyone mention this but when I tested this spec with Weapon Expertise... I gained a significant amount of +Parry like 2-3%. That was helpful in making sure I was uncrushable.


hmm?
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Postby jere » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:56 am

Ashes wrote:I haven't seen anyone mention this but when I tested this spec with Weapon Expertise... I gained a significant amount of +Parry like 2-3%. That was helpful in making sure I was uncrushable.


I think you are pretty mistaken. WE does not give you any extra parry.

I just looked at your armory. You have:

24 Parry Rating = 1.01%
506 def. skill = 6.24% parry
5/5 Deflection = 5% parry
5% base parry
------------------------
17.25% parry

So none of your parry comes from weapon expertise..
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