Wipe after Wipe in Herioc MGT

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Wipe after Wipe in Herioc MGT

Postby confusionisbad » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:39 pm

So today I had my worst experience ever in a dungeon. I don't know what the deal is. Maybe incompetent group or my gear. So I am trying to get suggestions on a good group for this place so I can get the mace and trinket to add to my set. But to get to the point we didn't kill the last boss and I couldn't stand being in there anymore so logged.

Here is the armor link:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... m&n=Lucili

This is the gear I was tanking with. I was around 16.7k HP buffed

Any suggestions for me? I am at a loss, I have done this dungeon before with a few wipes but nothing like tonight.

Thanks.
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Postby majiben » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:45 am

It was your group. Your spec and gear are fine. Only thing I would change for an H MGT run is to put on the SSO neck (only time I use it) and get a +stamina trinket. Since it's brew fest time it's a good time to grab one of the +45 trinkets from the seasonal boss.

What was your group composition? A good rogue can work wonders in there and even a good mage (good luck with the mage though, none seem to know what counterspell means).
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Postby samsara » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:45 am

MGT can be the easiest and the hardest hero to tank depending on the groupsetup.

Tell us more about the group.

What class where the healer. How many CC's and what CC's did you had ....

I think the easiest way to do MGT Hero is with Druid, Shaman odr Priest heal (as Paladin heal is not that good at group healing for example at 2nd or 3rd Boss). For the DD's i look out for skilled people or if i go random at least for Mage + Warlock + Rogue or Mage + Mage + WL/Rogue. Lots of CC makes this Instance realy easy. NO CC is even with good & skilled players sometimes quite hard.
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Postby ldeboer » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:21 am

What part went badly just kael or the packs?

Really can't help with so little info.

It happens I had a horrid H-Slabs run myself 2 days ago just everything seemed to go wrong from lag spikes to weird things on pulls .. dust it off and go again .. its part of being a tank.
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Postby confusionisbad » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:57 am

Sorry for the lack of info guys, I was just frustrated with the whole ordeal last night.

Group started out with follow:

Healer: (boomkin with healing gear im guessing)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &n=Epiques

Warlock, Mage, Hunter, and Myself

Got past first boss fine, moved on to the 2nd boss and wiped on it for about 1hr or so. Replaced hunter with a fury warrior, wiped some more. After while replaced lock and mage with 2 people who knew what they were doing and got past him.

Also through this whole wiping on the 2nd boss Healer was swapped out with a priest:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... m&n=Anaell

They said they never had issues healing this instance before on either toon.

So we move on to the third boss with the same group except swapping out the fury warrior with MS mace spec'd warrior due to other one having to leave. Third boss was dead after 2 attemps, most due to skilled guildie lock in his pvp gear.


So off to the last boss we go. Group now consists of Me, Back to druid healer, pvp lock, mage, and ms mace warrior. We never say phase two of the fight due to me getting owned by the pyro blast that no could interrupt it seemed. This went on for awhile while the mage and warrior had to log. So druid swapped healers out with their priest and we got a elemental shaman and dps druid but we still had the same issue. Id die on a pyro blast. After another hour of wiping I had to throw in the towel. Oh an the Mage said he wasnt able to CS the pyroblast even though we kept saying you could.

As far as stam gear, I do have some stam pieces that put me at 17.7k hp inside the isntance buffed but lowers my avoidance. Healer was claiming I was hard to heal in this gear.

Main difference in gear is:

Trinkets are stam ones (Beerfest +45 stam trinket and +45 stam goblin rocket launcher)
Gloves are swapped out with t4 gloves (more spell dmg)
Neck is swapped out with just +40 stam defense.

I am just guessing this was a horrid group where people were clueless on their function of the fights were which left a bad taste in my mouth.


Thanks
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Postby Lopimp » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:56 am

Majiben wrote:It was your group. Your spec and gear are fine. Only thing I would change for an H MGT run is to put on the SSO neck (only time I use it)


Which SSo neck are you on about the +SD one?? still tryingto get through heroic MGT on my Pali tank and struggling normally run lock mage and random and have probs come 3rd boss
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Postby Cadarn » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:59 am

Main problem I see is that your healer was specced for dps and your dps was specced for pvp.

As for the second boss, killing the orbs fast is the main priority. Mages can survive 3 or 4 stacks and ice block, hunters and locks can put their pets on a couple, rogues can take several and CoS. You can also kill 1 and seriously increase your threat.

When the 2nd boss does his enrage thing at 20% you should bubble and the healer should only heal the dps. The boss should be dead before your bubble expires.

For Kael, it's a sign of crappy dps if he even starts to cast a pyroblast. That said, you're a paladin and can just bubble when it's about to hit you.
For the record, the pyroblast is interruptible, *but* Kael puts up a shield w/ 10k health when he starts casting. The shield has to break before you can counterspell/kick it. If your dps can't get Kael to 50% before he pyros, it's unlikely they can break the shield in time.
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Postby Rónin » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:07 am

I have tanked and healed this instance both on heroic level and I can definitely vouch that whatever group you are going to bring with you, it puts a lot of restrain onto your healer. If you can tank boss one and two, boss number 3 and 4 won't be a problem for you.

I haven't analysed your gear, as you already give the answer to your question yourself. If you can't get into stage #2 on the Kael fight, the party's DPS is seriously slacking and not good enough to go into Heroic MgT. If the lock was seriously experienced and on the ball in DPS, you should have seen a big gap between him and the other two DPS-ers. If not, it could be you holding them back by not giving them enough threat to go all nuts on the DPS. But with > 300 SD, it shouldn't be you causing the problem. I'd say, just one of those "never-to-forget" PuG runs, with people not taking their own responsibility (if you are not good enough, be honest and don't go!). Assuming, you were doing your thing, it's not you being the bottleneck.

Regards,
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Postby confusionisbad » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:56 am

Thanks for confirming with me guys. I was starting to doubt myself. I do agree that PUGS can be hit or miss. This toon turned 70 3wks ago and I have been working hard to get it geared up as best as I could. I will be running kara again this week and getting the badge cloak after while trying to get a few heriocs done in the mean time.

Also I have healed this on my shaman without any issues, but I guess with +2282 unbuffed healing makes it fairly easily. Although the 2nd boss definitely keeps me on my toes.

Thanks
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Postby ldeboer » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:59 pm

confusionisbad wrote:So off to the last boss we go. Group now consists of Me, Back to druid healer, pvp lock, mage, and ms mace warrior. We never say phase two of the fight due to me getting owned by the pyro blast that no could interrupt it seemed. This went on for awhile while the mage and warrior had to log. So druid swapped healers out with their priest and we got a elemental shaman and dps druid but we still had the same issue. Id die on a pyro blast. After another hour of wiping I had to throw in the towel. Oh an the Mage said he wasnt able to CS the pyroblast even though we kept saying you could.
Thanks


The mage cant CS the pyroblast I am pretty sure nor can it be silenced as far as I know it can only be interrupted by a rogue kick or a warrior pummel.

That all said why didnt you just bubble thru the pyro and un bubble after which is what pally's do. He will dump agro after pyro because it will be seen as immune cancel the bubble and taunt him back.

That bit sorry to say was partly your fault because we are only class that doesn't need another class not to eat a pyro.

Rest sounds like a bit of a mess with everyone
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Postby uke » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:47 am

Let me guess, dps tried to nuke the 2nd boss as fast as possible as opposed to stopping dps between flares to wait for the debuff to fall off. amirite?

Slow and careful > all out dps on the 2nd boss.
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Postby VikrumthePally » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:10 pm

I should really post this somewhere and keep it. As MGT for me is now a breeze.

A.) No dps specced healers. MGT is no joke.

B.) Kill the first pull and the first pat and angle your camera so you can see what type of setup you have for the pvp fight. Make sure it's favorable. Not favorable would be the MS war, The rogue, The shaman. Those 3 are the biggest pains. If you get those 3 or just any setup you don't like reset the instance.

C.) If you have the luxury a priest with MC makes the entire place a snoozefest. Outside the pvp fight where that is the only place a shad priest becomes a liability.

D.) On the 2nd boss it's really not too bad. Specially if you have access to a decent mage. Any mage I go with can take the 1st 6 mobs, Ice Block, then take the next 2, leaving just 2 adds to be dealt with. At that point just have anyone that can basically insta shot them and you are good. Also have the mage use Ice Lance. I think that is the name. That spell owns for those adds.

E.) Restro druids own on all figths here. Mostly so on the last one.

F.) The 3 things in there that kill a pally the most, Magisters, Immolate, Judgment of Wrath. Last two are dispellable. And magisters usually get the moon icon with me. If no mage then they get the skull.

G.) If you have a good lock and mage in your group Pyro on last fight isn't an issue. Have the lock Curse of Doom him and that should eat through his shield, then the mage can cancel his Pyro. Or just bubble and click off as others have said. Once a phoenix spawns ALL dps get on them. I will be honset I run with pretty l337 people and it's not always easy to get him to 50% before he pyros. I would say it's not the norm in my groups. Also I pop Avenging Wrath wait 3 seconds then pull. This makes it so that Forbearance is gone before his Pyro comes up and I am still able to bubble if need be.

H.) If you have any questions or need anymore information feel free to ask. I now run this place with zero CC. Am I boasting? No. It's sad. I have too much time to run MGT one a day for months on end.

Good luck.
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Postby Senador » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:50 pm

Magister's is a different kind of beast than other heroics.

Most of the encounters (With the exception of the idiot with the crystals) rely upon your DPS being able to function and do their roles properly. In most heroics, you can drag through most idiotic DPS with only a little bit of problems. Magister's you can't.

Kael is one of my favorite encounters because the fight is entirely in player hands.

DPS down before Pyroblast? Player controlled.
DPS Shock barrier? Player controlled.
Avoiding Flamestrike? Player controlled.
Killing Phoenix? Player controlled.
Killing Egg? Player controlled.
Avoiding bird and explosion? Player controlled.
Avoiding orbs during Grav Flux? Player controlled.
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Postby Kelaan » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:19 pm

VikrumthePally wrote:B.) Kill the first pull and the first pat and angle your camera so you can see what type of setup you have for the pvp fight. Make sure it's favorable. Not favorable would be the MS war, The rogue, The shaman. Those 3 are the biggest pains. If you get those 3 or just any setup you don't like reset the instance.


Can you actually see them this way? Where do you stand? I never seem to be able to get my camera "outside" far enough to see down to the lower level. Do you use a /target macro? (I may have to write one ...)

How many of the Bad Three (MS, rogue, shaman) do you tolerate? 2/3 of them seems to be bad news to me.

I'll try and run this place more often, I guess. I still need that trinket, hehe... (though, come 3.0, I think I might need double defense trinkets still. Sigh.)
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Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:16 pm

You can see nameplates through the floor.
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