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MTing Gruul tonight, will my current gear do it?

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MTing Gruul tonight, will my current gear do it?

Postby Demiblade » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:36 am

Thanks for the pointers with my previous help request on Kara MTing. It was helpful. The runs were successful and I made my guild proud as a prot pally.

Now it's Gruul time.

Experienced pallies who've tanked him, could you please give me some pointers on following questions based on my current gear. My armory is linked in sig.

Based on current gear, I'm uncrshable with 13k hp unbuffed, 16,227 armor with devo. Dodge: 14.01%Parry: 17.17%.

1. Gear Alternatives?
I have moroes lucky watch, but using it instead of figurine of the collosus will make me 2% away from 102.4%. I don't really think it's a good idea to tank him with 2% crushable gear. So I will need to drop the +45 stm trinket and use another avoidance one. Bringing my hp down to 12.5k~ish unbuffed. Should I do that? My raid leader recommends me to be about 18k hp raid buffed. So I need to be about 13k unbuffed to reach that. Using strength of the untamed will bring my dodge up, at the expense of 100 hp less. Is dodge really that important for this fight?

2. Silence?
Any tips to time my holy shield so that it's always up? Or is it based on luck?

3. Growth?
My healers and DPS are well geared. This is not going to be a guild progress kill. They've already downed Magtheridon and now attempting SSC. How many stages of growth should we be able to survive with my current tank gear?

[QQ]I did try my best to gear up from Kara as much as I can before I get assigned to tank Gruul this week. If only that damn vambrace, necklace, chest, and shoulders would drop for me in Kara. I've been tanking and farming Kara for 7 weeks now ffs and they just won't drop! I've gotta be one of the most unlucky prot pallies out there when it comes to Kara luck. At this rate, I'm gonna get my T4 shoulders from HKM first before I get the netherspite one.[/QQ]

P.S. Please move this thread to Gear session if needed. I posted this under Strats because I'm asking some strat related questions as well. Thanks.
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Postby Teah » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:46 am

I think your dodge/parry is kinda low.. but still worth a shot. I don't really know what a paladin tanking Gruul should really have. I just let the warriors die to him.

The silence is on a timer get a mod like Bigwigs/Deadly Boss Mods and it won't be a problem for ya at all. :lol:
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Postby YoYoMa » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:23 pm

heh, I'll chime in since I just posted another thread on Gruul tanking.

So I've honestly never had much issue tanking gruul. If you are going to do it you NEED to be uncrushable. It's not a question. With growths and silences hamstringing your healers, he's going to be hitting hard and you can't afford the spike damage.

I agree with Teah, your dodge/parry is a bit low but that just means you'll be taking more damage. I don't know how it stacks up against your other tanks. If you are in the same boat then your healers will already be ready to heal it, if it's lower than your warriors they'll need to step it up a bit but be prepared to possibly bite it as the growths get to be too much.

As for HS, obviously make sure it's up at all times. After a knockback/shatter it's the first thing I pop so it's up as soon as he comes over to me. Since that is one of the points where you are most vunerable because your healers could be out of range it has to be up. Also be ready to pop a healthstone or healthpot at that transition just in case they are out of range. Othe than that, you shouldn't have much issue with silence, just watch your timers.

I'd say as long as you get him down around 14ish growth you should be ok.

Lastly, stay out of cave ins. You don't want to be taking a 7k hit plus another 5k from caveins. They are a bit hard to see when tanking so make sure you have your boss mods on to alert you so you know to swing Gruul around.
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Re: MTing Gruul tonight, will my current gear do it?

Postby adese » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:25 pm

Demiblade wrote:Thanks for the pointers with my previous help request on Kara MTing. It was helpful. The runs were successful and I made my guild proud as a prot pally.

Now it's Gruul time.

Experienced pallies who've tanked him, could you please give me some pointers on following questions based on my current gear. My armory is linked in sig.

Based on current gear, I'm uncrshable with 13k hp unbuffed, 16,227 armor with devo. Dodge: 14.01%Parry: 17.17%.


Your stats are similar to mine. This past weekend my guild killed Gruul for the first time. While I didn't start out as MT, I was MT from about 35% onwards (the warrior MT died at that point). While I've never successfully tanked him from start to finish, you'll probably be ok - especially given that your guild has killed him before, and therefore more experienced with the fight.

Demiblade wrote:1. Gear Alternatives?
I have moroes lucky watch, but using it instead of figurine of the collosus will make me 2% away from 102.4%. I don't really think it's a good idea to tank him with 2% crushable gear. So I will need to drop the +45 stm trinket and use another avoidance one. Bringing my hp down to 12.5k~ish unbuffed. Should I do that? My raid leader recommends me to be about 18k hp raid buffed. So I need to be about 13k unbuffed to reach that. Using strength of the untamed will bring my dodge up, at the expense of 100 hp less. Is dodge really that important for this fight?


I would favor stamina over dodge for this fight. As Teah said, your dodge is a bit low, however I don't like to rely on dodge against the heavy hitters - I don't like the idea of getting unlucky for a string of hits in a row. I prefer to stack stamina to give me more staying power (and a bigger buffer for the healers to work with).

Demiblade wrote:2. Silence?
Any tips to time my holy shield so that it's always up? Or is it based on luck?


For me, it is mostly based on luck. You're going to keep HS up 100% of the time, and it's not like you can use it early. Waiting a second or two to cast it is risky, as it opens you up to a crushing blow. What I did was to announce on Vent if/when there was a silence and I didn't have HS up. While some sort of boss mod can help, if you have a Silence coming in 1 second and your HS is also down in 1-2 seconds, there really isn't much that you can do about it.
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Postby Mithos » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:49 pm

Gruul's silence is not on a specific timer I don't think? Not in practice anyway. Deadly boss mods always shows it wrong, I think its in a +/- 10 second interval of when it says it should be. However, it could also be that the timers stop when hes doing ground slam (which I think they do actually), and the mods do not account for this.

On a side note I have solo tanked him up to at least 19 (may have got to 20 but I was focusing too much to notice), i.e, I was tanking hatefuls as well as silly auto swing damage. This was because we had him at about 20% for the first time and just kept going hehe :D. I think I slightly outgear the encounter, but I kinda have to to get the HP really, but Gruul is the most progressed boss we have killed, atm..
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Postby Worldie » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:28 pm

Good stamina but low avoidance as they said, but may work if your healers dont sleep. Anyway you would probably not survive after 14 growths, so you will need good DPS.

For the silence, it has a CD but Gruul uses it some seconds after the CD expires, so you will never know exactly when it will come, so its much luck based. Maybe if you have a pally with Imp Conc Aura, get him into your party. Save your avoidance trinkets (moroes etc) and possibly LoH for later if you have for a silence without Holy Shield. Never happened to me tbh, but maybe i'm just lucky.

IF you are really in trouble and Gruul is at <5% (and only in that case), ninja pop a DS and immediatly dispel it and cast a Seal. If you are fast enough you will have made enough time (2-3 seconds) for the healers to heal you up. Your OT may be dead after this if he gets a hit + arcisn smash at same time, but if you die the same thing would have happened, so cheer up and continue the fight!
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Postby Lieris » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:47 pm

Remember raid buffs (flask, motw and kings most notably) might get you to 102.4% with the watch and stamina trinket. If you can get away with then definitely use that combination :) The watch is really nice to use when silence comes up with holy shield down.
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MTing Gruul

Postby Aular » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:28 am

I have a hell of a time MTing Gruul with his silly Silence.

I managed it successfully once. Every subsequent time (about 3 or 4 now), I die because he's in growth >10 and manages a Crushing blow that exceed my max health due to me being Silenced (or a Crushing followed by a smaller but lethal strike).

Been thinking about ways to try and compensate, but I don't have much so far. Here's a few brainstorms; I haven't tried any of these out yet:

1. Divine Shield Macro. A blood-elf paladin who was posting some creative ways to tank Nightbane posted a Divine Shield Fear Erasing Macro; I think it'd remove Resonance (Gruul's Silence) too. It's a basic macro that casts D.S., then does a /cancelaura. It's fast enough that the boss will leave you for a split second while DS is up, then pop right back when it's canceled.

2. Moroes Lucky Pocketwatch, for when DS is on cooldown.

3. Adamantite Figurine, for when (1) and (2) are on cooldown. It won't give you as big a boost as the Pocketwatch, though.

Of course, I'm also trying to stack more +stamina stuff. It's frustrating that we start with the lowest base HP. I'd love a Prot talent that increases stamina a bit more than the Improved Divine Shield. 6% just isn't enough to make up the gap between Warrior and Paladin HPs. Perhaps a talent that lowered Int to increase Stamina? Something.

Good luck on Gruul.
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Re: MTing Gruul

Postby adese » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:08 am

Aular wrote:1. Divine Shield Macro. A blood-elf paladin who was posting some creative ways to tank Nightbane posted a Divine Shield Fear Erasing Macro; I think it'd remove Resonance (Gruul's Silence) too. It's a basic macro that casts D.S., then does a /cancelaura. It's fast enough that the boss will leave you for a split second while DS is up, then pop right back when it's canceled.


Do you know what the macro is?

The only DS macro I've seen used for Nightbane is the following:

Code: Select all
/cancelaura Divine Shield
/cast Divine Shield


It takes two presses to work - one to cast DS, the 2nd to remove it. When I've played around with the macro, I need to wait a second or two between presses to ensure that DS is up to be canceled.

My guild has only killed Gruul once, but I'm not sure how safe I would feel using this macro while MTing him. It just seems like too much could go wrong when DS is up, and it's not like we can just use Exorcism to get him back like we can with Nightbane.

It is definitely worth considering, though - much better than just hoping that HS is always up when you are silenced.
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Postby Worldie » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:24 am

Actually if you have the chance to get Dabiri's Enigma, that + Moroes trinket can be popped at same time and grant crushing immunity for 10~ seconds every 2 minutes.

That DS macro is some way of Casino and should be used only if Gruul is at low percentage, or timed with the hurtful strike. Gruul will switch to your OT for a second if you use it, and is very likely going to kill a melee DPS with the next Hurtful Strike. But well, you can sacrifice a melee dps, that wont cause a wipe, your death would.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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