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Brutallus - Warrior 700tps - Druid 900tps is this right?

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Brutallus - Warrior 700tps - Druid 900tps is this right?

Postby Base » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:28 am

I'm the tanking officer in our guild and was looking over the figures from last night's brutallus kill.

According to http://rehfeld.us/wow/wws-tps the warrior (who is our best geared tank - with the kalec sword) managed to throw out 700tps, while our substitute druid tank managed over 900tps.

We moved on to Felmyst (still learning) and on a number of occasions melee managed to overagro him pretty early in the fight causing wipes - looking back over the wws - he was again doing around 700tps.

I dug back a bit further and looked at the illidan kill from last week where he again managed 690ish tps.

Is this a normal level of threat or should I be having words with him? It seems rather low to me at this level of the game and while we had no problem with brut I wonder if it was the druid keeping agro up above dps.
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Postby Elsie » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:36 am

rehfeld is bad for any fight that involves long periods of not-tanking.

For brutallus, as an example, the druid can maintain a moderate DPS while not tanking whereas a warrior can't. So his TPS looks higher because he did more in non-tank time.
I think my last rehfeld on brutallus was like 1200 though.

You're better off going by omen during the fight (screenshots and stuff).
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Postby Conaan! » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:52 am

one of the warrior tanks on my server (Vadis-shadowsong), put out 1300 tps on lvl 60 naxx trash, according to omen, base his tps against that, as that warrior has also gotten brut down not too long ago
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Postby inthedrops » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:18 am

Using this website http://rehfeld.us/wow/wws-tps/ Our most recent kill of brut shows the warrior tank producing 1015 tps (dps time). And the druid tank produced 985 tps.

Both tanks are very well geared (we've cleared SWP)

I looked at a run the week prior where a different warrior was used and he produced 904 tps while the druid tank (same druid as before) produced 1011 tps.

Threat by these two warriors on Felmyst (dps time) ranges anywhere in the low to high 800's.

Make of this what you will.
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Postby fafhrd » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:17 pm

http://rehfeld.us/wow/wws-tps/fight-4725

Summary of brutallus threat parses the site has been given.
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Postby PsiVen » Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:59 am

That parsing site is generally meaningless for many fights unless you painstakingly adjust for the time when you're actually tanking, which is most easily done by watching Omen totals on FRAPS. Last time I did this for Brutallus my actual TPS was around 1550 and our warrior's around ~1250. Feral somewhere in between.
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Postby Afraithe » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:40 am

On a sidenote, this boss is a good example of extremely poor scaling, the better gear I use (40% pure dodge etc) the worse my Threat gets (by a LOT).
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Postby Rehlachs- » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:51 am

as psiven said .. the tanks are doing their threat abilities for the whole length of that encounter.. more like 50% ^^

they will continue doing autoattacks and so on, but f.e. warriors won't be able to spam Heroic Strike.
furthermore a good portion of the actual thread (a.k.a. the thread shown by Omen) is supported by taunts.
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Postby fafhrd » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:54 am

Since Brut is a bad test, teron gorefiend? It's the other fight DPS usually uses to benchmark. Although he's undead instead of a demon, and the top 200 parses for him are likely all from wildly overgeared speed runs with tanks wearing much more threat gear than normal:

http://rehfeld.us/wow/wws-tps/fight-2414
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Postby Elsie » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:00 pm

gorefiend isn't brut. Brut you have infinite rage, get hit all the time, etc.

Gorefiend in t6 is lame.
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Postby fafhrd » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:37 pm

Elsie wrote:gorefiend isn't brut. Brut you have infinite rage, get hit all the time, etc.

Gorefiend in t6 is lame.


The op himself looked back to his tank's Illidan TPS, which seems like an even worse comparison. Looks like he's trying to figure out if his tanks are doing what they should be doing, and if tank swaps on brutallus make it a bad fight to analyze TPS offline, teron is the next step down, is it not? The only problem being no-one in the list posted above tanked him in normal tanking gear so the TPS is probably higher than on a normal run.
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Postby Elsie » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:55 pm

Gorefiend could give you an indication of the tank's rotation (ie, whether he's doing the right stuff or not). He'll be heroic striking a lot less, though.


I think a better method is looking at the wws for brutallus and a wws for a brutallus from another guild and comparing stuff like heroic strikes, misses, etc. I'm sure most sunwell guilds would provide an active wws if you're nice (don't have one on me, personally).
This way, he can see if the rotation is similar (given similar avoidance, dmg intake), if he's missing too much (not enough expertise/hit), or what-have-you.
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Postby PsiVen » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:13 pm

Afraithe wrote:On a sidenote, this boss is a good example of extremely poor scaling, the better gear I use (40% pure dodge etc) the worse my Threat gets (by a LOT).


Not sure I understand this, unless you're going beyond Sunwell uncrushable you won't lose any HS procs. Only other thing is less SA threat from damage taken. Are you burning mana with RF between cooldowns?
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Postby Afraithe » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:58 am

When we progressed Brutallus, the only gear I had was T6 parts, and Paladin tanks can be a bit hard to heal on Brutallus (especially if we don't re-gem etc), our Warror definetly mitigated a lot more damage than I did when we first got there, but I had an asswhopping ton of TPS instead (low dodge, but lots of blockrating). I easily carried the Warrior, we loose a lot of TPS while he was tanking, but gained it back up again with me.

Now it is almost reversed, I have a lot better gear, mitigate more and dodge a TON more, Warrior still mitigates well, and has some increased TPS while my TPS has gone down (instead of blocking every hit, I am now dodge/parrying a lot of them).

Also, on progress we had many Paladins on this fight, so I used Sanct, but nowdays we ride with a lot less Paladins, so I usually put Light on myself instead, again a bit of a TPS decrease (not much tho).
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