Warriors and Paladins Block About the Same in Build 8905

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Postby Arcand » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:11 pm

Widdox wrote:Love it!


He may have been congratulating me, but I assumed the tone was closer to disdain.
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:52 pm

Arcand wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Arcand wrote:
Io.Draco wrote:Would people just wait for the godamn paladin changes before stating their opinions about what will be?!


I'll bet it drives you crazy that people watch hockey games, instead of just reading the score the next morning.


you just compared the development process of a MMORPG to a hockey game.


We pay to be there.
We watch from the sidelines.
Some of us are pretty chilled about the outcome.
Some of us are rabidly invested in the outcome.
Some of us try to influence the outcome by screaming really loud, even though it doesn't seem to make much difference.
There's some entertainment value in noting historic tendencies we see in the participants and their implications for the outcome.
Whenever a significant event occurs, there's a mental and verbal flurry as everyone assesses its impact and implications.

So yeah, I thought it was an adequate metaphor. :)


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Postby Obrimos » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:55 pm

Arcand wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Arcand wrote:
Io.Draco wrote:Would people just wait for the godamn paladin changes before stating their opinions about what will be?!


I'll bet it drives you crazy that people watch hockey games, instead of just reading the score the next morning.


you just compared the development process of a MMORPG to a hockey game.


We pay to be there.
We watch from the sidelines.
Some of us are pretty chilled about the outcome.
Some of us are rabidly invested in the outcome.
Some of us try to influence the outcome by screaming really loud, even though it doesn't seem to make much difference.
There's some entertainment value in noting historic tendencies we see in the participants and their implications for the outcome.
Whenever a significant event occurs, there's a mental and verbal flurry as everyone assesses its impact and implications.

So yeah, I thought it was an adequate metaphor. :)


You forgot that when the players or the referees make a call that may seem to be hedged toward one team or another, fights break out all over the stands.

Oh, and most Americans have no idea how the game is played but they're the highest paying audience.
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Postby Arcand » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:15 pm

Obrimos wrote:You forgot that when the players or the referees make a call that may seem to be hedged toward one team or another, fights break out all over the stands.


I wish I'd thought of that. I would have used a phrase like 'turn on each other like rabid wolves'.
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Postby Mithos » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:34 pm

btw I don't think we're gonna get 60% avoidance very easily in WotLK tbh, maybe in immense end game gear but they said avoidance is FAR too high currently, which is why they introcued sunwell radiance and started lowering avoidance on sunwell gear (trading for threat), so imo I think you should do some tests with like 40%, 45% and 55% (already done 50%).
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Postby moduspwnens » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:38 pm

Mithos wrote:btw I don't think we're gonna get 60% avoidance very easily in WotLK tbh, maybe in immense end game gear but they said avoidance is FAR too high currently, which is why they introcued sunwell radiance and started lowering avoidance on sunwell gear (trading for threat), so imo I think you should do some tests with like 40%, 45% and 55% (already done 50%).


Well, 40% is what you get from only hitting uncrittable, with no dodge, parry, or defense rating over 540. You can count on 5% from Scorpid Sting, and certainly something from buffs... and that's just the beginning tier.
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Postby Mithos » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:53 pm

Hmm yeah I forget about anticipation. Then I guess 50-60 seems ok although I can't see it being practical to gear for more if they just beef up threat and keep avoidance mostly the same.
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Postby majiben » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:28 am

As this thread touches on, becoming uncritable in pve gear pre raid may not be feasable or will serverly gimp tank's other stats like uncrushable did for tankadins (remember there was no badge gear at the start). Maybe being critable by a small amount will be acceptable like how some pally tanks run lower kara without being uncrushable.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:31 am

Majiben wrote:As this thread touches on, becoming uncritable in pve gear pre raid may not be feasable or will serverly gimp tank's other stats like uncrushable did for tankadins (remember there was no badge gear at the start). Maybe being critable by a small amount will be acceptable like how some pally tanks run lower kara without being uncrushable.
I think it's feasible for raids(not sure about heroics) because it's already stated that they're fine with tanks being uncrittable, and will design based on that. I'm fairly confident heroic gear will allow the uncrit status easily.
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Postby moduspwnens » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:02 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
Majiben wrote:As this thread touches on, becoming uncritable in pve gear pre raid may not be feasable or will serverly gimp tank's other stats like uncrushable did for tankadins (remember there was no badge gear at the start). Maybe being critable by a small amount will be acceptable like how some pally tanks run lower kara without being uncrushable.
I think it's feasible for raids(not sure about heroics) because it's already stated that they're fine with tanks being uncrittable, and will design based on that. I'm fairly confident heroic gear will allow the uncrit status easily.


Hmm. I should make a thread or add onto my other thread about this.
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Postby moduspwnens » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:05 am

Also, I didn't think about it until now, but all the calculations in this thread assume there ISN'T the Tome of the Lightbringer. Hmph.
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Postby Noradin » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:06 am

moduspwnens wrote:Also, I didn't think about it until now, but all the calculations in this thread assume there ISN'T the Tome of the Lightbringer. Hmph.


The badge libram could be usefull to look into, too.
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Postby moduspwnens » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:07 am

Noradin wrote:
moduspwnens wrote:Also, I didn't think about it until now, but all the calculations in this thread assume there ISN'T the Tome of the Lightbringer. Hmph.


The badge libram could be usefull to look into, too.


It's already in there, assuming level 70.
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Postby Lore » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:11 am

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Postby Tev » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:48 pm

The only question I have is if warriors and paladins block the same over time (if in different ways, warriors can focus more when a burst is expected, paladins can keep it up all the time), then considering the current state, what still needs to be done to balance paladins, warriors, and other tanks? Its clear that Warriors are the base line tank, they are the mold that it followed and all other tanks need to be brought up to the level for base line tanking. Obviously other tank classes have their niche, but what needs to be done to make sure that the current trend of warriors for everything except niche fights will end?

Its been stated that they want every tank to be viable, so what has to change for paladins to keep that statement true? I'm asking because Warriors got their pass and it was a good one, but I look at things and it seems that paladins once again will need a good bit of work to bring up them up to par so to speak.

Any feedback/opinions?
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