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An idea to fix Reckoning I posted on the Beta forums.

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An idea to fix Reckoning I posted on the Beta forums.

Postby Witchaven » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:29 pm

I was reading a lot of the suggestions on the Beta forums, and actually thought up what I think might be the best idea for changing Reckoning into something more fun, doesn't scale backwards, and not to overpowered.
They should change Reckoning to the following 1 point talented ability.

Reckoning: Costs 2% Base Mana, No Cooldown (including Global.)
When activated, your next normal Melee attack does an additional attack that cannot be parried.

This would basically be a good source of additional Threat/DPS in high Mana situations (basically be a Mana dump) and would be another active ability for us to use while soloing.
Any opinions?
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Postby moduspwnens » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:32 pm

Meh, I think it takes away from the original flavor of the talent. I'd prefer a "Windfury" effect on my next ShoR or HotR.
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:50 pm

It also doesn't address that additional melee attacks are somewhat lackluster with SoV as our primary tanking seal. It's a fact right now: Tankadins scale poorly with haste.....so either something would have to change to make us scale better with haste, or I think Reckoning should no longer provide what is essentially a haste benefit (I've suggested a flat damage increase on proc as one option, but I'm not invested in that idea specifically).
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Postby Rasmfrackn » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:14 pm

It does have the one interesting aspect of being a "mana dump"... Am I wrong in thinking that warriors have a higher threat ceiling when they're getting hit amazingly hard due to heroic strike off the GCD? Having a similiar "excess" outlet that's off the GCD might be nice.
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:25 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:It does have the one interesting aspect of being a "mana dump"... Am I wrong in thinking that warriors have a higher threat ceiling when they're getting hit amazingly hard due to heroic strike off the GCD? Having a similiar "excess" outlet that's off the GCD might be nice.


Warrior's Heroic Strike when they rage dump it's true.....but it's worked into the balance in TBC, it's not like Warriors suddenly are leaps and bounds ahead of other tanks for threat in raids.

Mana dumps are a good idea but for Tankadins it looks like we've got that covered in the form of Consecration, which seems like it won't be part of a normal rotation except when we have tons of mana.

Finally, I realize this is rather vague, but the Reck mana dump idea given doesn't "feel right". An extra melee attack on demand just seems rather bland and not particularly Paladin flavored.
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Postby Jikozani » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:28 pm

Why is everyone certain that SoV will be our new tanking seal? Is it superior in spellpower and ap coefficients?
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Postby Rasmfrackn » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:30 pm

Dorvan wrote:
Rasmfrackn wrote:It does have the one interesting aspect of being a "mana dump"... Am I wrong in thinking that warriors have a higher threat ceiling when they're getting hit amazingly hard due to heroic strike off the GCD? Having a similiar "excess" outlet that's off the GCD might be nice.


Warrior's Heroic Strike when they rage dump it's true.....but it's worked into the balance in TBC, it's not like Warriors suddenly are leaps and bounds ahead of other tanks for threat in raids.

Mana dumps are a good idea but for Tankadins it looks like we've got that covered in the form of Consecration, which seems like it won't be part of a normal rotation except when we have tons of mana.

Finally, I realize this is rather vague, but the Reck mana dump idea given doesn't "feel right". An extra melee attack on demand just seems rather bland and not particularly Paladin flavored.


Fair enough. And I'll take your word on the first part since my warrior co-tank and I don't seem to end up trading off on the same bosses, so it's hard to compare.

I'm with you on consecrate... see other thread. :)
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:36 pm

Jikozani wrote:Why is everyone certain that SoV will be our new tanking seal? Is it superior in spellpower and ap coefficients?


Scaling.

SoR scales at 5% AP + 10% SP per second
SoV scales at 11.6% AP + 5.83% SP per second

...and we'll definitely have more AP than SP at 80

Furthermore, judging SoR does 125% judgment damage, judging SoV does 150% of judgment damage.
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Postby Selinaria » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:42 pm

Dorvan wrote:
Jikozani wrote:Why is everyone certain that SoV will be our new tanking seal? Is it superior in spellpower and ap coefficients?


Scaling.

SoR scales at 5% AP + 10% SP per second
SoV scales at 11.6% AP + 5.83% SP per second

...and we'll definitely have more AP than SP at 80

Furthermore, judging SoR does 125% judgment damage, judging SoV does 150% of judgment damage.


Dorvan is 100% correct. It is just superior in scaling and base judgement damage (with a 5 stack) as well.
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Postby Jessiespano » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:16 pm

I personally think the SoV solution would be to give it a bonus threat component on the proc while RF is active.

Reckoning definitely needs a makeover, but the 2 solutions I'm in favor of are:
1) Your auto attacks deal an additional 5/10/15/20/25% Holy damage. (See Necrosis)
or
2) Each melee hit has a 20% chance of granting the Paladin 1 extra attack as Holy Damage (Similar to the current Windfury)

I think either of these two solutions would make reckoning very useful as well as provide direct link between weapon damage and Righteous Fury threat.
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Postby majiben » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:01 am

I like Jessiespano's second idea on reckoning. It also has the added bonus of helping to make the slow one hander taking weapon edge out caster weapons for threat.

Got to love synergy.
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Postby Brand » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:49 am

Jessiespano wrote:2) Each melee hit has a 20% chance of granting the Paladin 1 extra attack as Holy Damage (Similar to the current Windfury)


I'd buy that for a dollar. The extra attack keeps it closer in line with the current form (albeit in a reduced capacity) but cancels out the inverse scalability of the talent.
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Postby Sharlos » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:54 am

Brand wrote:
Jessiespano wrote:2) Each melee hit has a 20% chance of granting the Paladin 1 extra attack as Holy Damage (Similar to the current Windfury)


I'd buy that for a dollar. The extra attack keeps it closer in line with the current form (albeit in a reduced capacity) but cancels out the inverse scalability of the talent.


and is pretty neat for when ur using a 2hander
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Re: An idea to fix Reckoning I posted on the Beta forums.

Postby Niemen » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:16 am

Witchaven wrote:I was reading a lot of the suggestions on the Beta forums, and actually thought up what I think might be the best idea for changing Reckoning into something more fun, doesn't scale backwards, and not to overpowered.
They should change Reckoning to the following 1 point talented ability.

Reckoning: Costs 2% Base Mana, No Cooldown (including Global.)
When activated, your next normal Melee attack does an additional attack that cannot be parried.

This would basically be a good source of additional Threat/DPS in high Mana situations (basically be a Mana dump) and would be another active ability for us to use while soloing.
Any opinions?


I like the idea. I am sick of Paladins getting all kind of cool stuff on procc chances that you do not have to think about, and your idea would definitely add to the complexity of paladin tanking and "reward" the more skilled/experienced player instead of making him a "push your buttons in the following order"-class.

My idea of reckoning is to not only give us extra attacks but lower our Global Cooldown by 0.5 Seconds for the duration (including the cooldown of Anvengers Shield and Hammer of Wrath, making them Instand casts). This would give us the opportunity to add some extra skills that usually do not fit into our rotation. While this is not an active skill, it requires the paladin to do his homework to be most efficient, threat- and survivability wise
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Postby Brand » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:19 am

Hammer of Wrath is now instant cast in the Beta.

Woo for more threat-gen*!



*only applicable once mob is below 35% health. Curse you Blizz. ><
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