Brutallus

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby rohanadin » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:09 am

Ankiseth wrote:if your guild is in love with other types of tanks, and you're a main raider, ask for a ret set.

Seriously. You can go ret whenever you don't tank(Felmyst if everyone shows up, Brut, Twins, KJ depending on strat).

The only reason I could see *not* bringing a pally is the ability to LSSeed/Wall the last few stomps.

The reason *most* paladins seem to get wrecked(in my experience) is lack of debuffs/debuff synergy. It's VERY VERY easy to forget that the warrior you took out was the one TCing a mob. Or that "we need either imp Demo or Imp CoW to counteract reck".

If all those are up, the only difference between us and the other tanks is... T6 BP :(. WHY'S IT SO BAD FOR THAT FIGHT?



Tc has to be up no matter who,s tanking :)
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Re: brutalus

Postby rohanadin » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:13 am

Worldie wrote:
rohanadin wrote:1 shotted enough said

Dragonscale Entrusted Longsword and 2x stam trinket
/questionmark


Thats just the gear from armoury not the gear i was wearing, but i did use the encrusted long blade and my threat was fine, i decided to try it because of what other paladins said before about using a proper tanking weapon and threat was absolutely fine had no complaints from raid what so ever,they said threat was better with me and warrior tanking. :)
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Re: brutalus

Postby rohanadin » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:21 am

Donjuan wrote:
Worldie wrote:
rohanadin wrote:1 shotted enough said

Dragonscale Entrusted Longsword and 2x stam trinket
/questionmark


I see he also has ring of hardened resolve and crimson paragon cover, where as none of the wariors in his guild has it(as far as i can tell)? please tell me they were sitting the day that stuff dropped? (not that you cant have that stuff, just can imagine the warrior qq:P)


Are current mt warrior is 0.50% from expertise cap so he said i could have it. :)
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Postby Ankiseth » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:52 am

rohanadin wrote:
Ankiseth wrote:if your guild is in love with other types of tanks, and you're a main raider, ask for a ret set.

Seriously. You can go ret whenever you don't tank(Felmyst if everyone shows up, Brut, Twins, KJ depending on strat).

The only reason I could see *not* bringing a pally is the ability to LSSeed/Wall the last few stomps.

The reason *most* paladins seem to get wrecked(in my experience) is lack of debuffs/debuff synergy. It's VERY VERY easy to forget that the warrior you took out was the one TCing a mob. Or that "we need either imp Demo or Imp CoW to counteract reck".

If all those are up, the only difference between us and the other tanks is... T6 BP :(. WHY'S IT SO BAD FOR THAT FIGHT?



Tc has to be up no matter who,s tanking :)


Yes.

But for some reason warriors seem... sloppier putting it up for someone else. I know a good DPS warr keeps it up and all, but if you're tanking with a warr, sometimes they seem to forget. *shrug*.

Donjuan, the MT of his guild is Mudashiru (Wowprogress is such a sexy site). Who is 14.5% dodge/parry reduct(unless my math is off) wearing all his expertiseish gear. However, as many tanks will point out, the ability to drop a piece of expertise gear(usually cloak/neck) for hit makes the ring *very* *very* sexy.
That and the number of rings with armor is really low :(
EDIT: Note, we should never judge one's guild based on drops and gear that they have.

On a related note: how much TPS were you throwing up on brutallus with that sword?
And is that the gear you tanked your brut with?
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Postby rohanadin » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:14 pm

My threat was around 1200 tps minimum and topped out at around 2.2k tps
with wings and i was wearing this http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... =Rohanadin

i logged out in my brut gear dunno how long it will stay like that so look quick ;)
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Re: brutalus

Postby Ankiseth » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:19 pm

rohanadin wrote:My threat was around 1200 tps minimum and topped out at around 2.2k tps
with wings and i was wearing this http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... =Rohanadin

i logged out in my brut gear dunno how long it will stay like that so look quick ;)


Why would you not use the M'uru ring over the Badge one? or is your outfitter/item rack just not changed yet?

k. so about 66.8% evasion with mark. not too bad.

Did you get an actual tank group? or were you just kinda put somewhere?
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Postby rohanadin » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:30 pm

Yea i had proper tank grp with agi totem and i got the ring yesterday from muru so i have not used on brut yet. :)
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Postby rohanadin » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:38 pm

Also i don,t think i will take more expertise gear as paladins don,t need as much as warriors, all warriors abilitys are dodgable and parryable and paladins weapon swing is the only thing dodgable or parryable unless u using sob or reckoning, although i think personaly sob is sexy threat with expertise and windfury on a single target,well thats what i found out from my own experiments.
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Postby PsiVen » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:54 pm

Taking less damage than the warrior when you're using that shield is nothing short of a miracle ;)
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Re: 2nd attempt on brutalus

Postby fiorina » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:25 pm

rohanadin wrote:This is my 2nd attempt on brutalus and i,m shocked because both times i took less dmg than the warrior who had alot better gear, and both tanked brut an equal amount of times. Here,s the wws report: http://wowwebstats.com/wnefyedch16vk?s=103184-136296


He eat 1 ironshield, you eat 3. He had 1 stomp more also.
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Postby rohanadin » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:23 pm

why do ppl have to pick out the faults just a simple grats would be ok since its only the 2nd time i tanked him' i thought this was the tankadin community :)

Wish i had the wws for my first try i had 1 extra stomp and still took less dmg :)
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Re: brutalus

Postby Ankiseth » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:55 pm

rohanadin wrote:why do ppl have to pick out the faults just a simple grats would be ok since its only the 2nd time i tanked him' i thought this was the tankadin community :)

Wish i had the wws for my first try i had 1 extra stomp and still took less dmg :)


what they're doing is picking apart flaws in your reasoning and your claims that are unfounded.

grats on tanking Brut successfully.
But please don't make claims that aren't based in facts.

I'm not going to lie, I'd actually like to see you do 1.2k TPS+ with that longblade, tho I guess that Brut is a special case due to all the SA/HS/BoSanc threat.
I guess my *only* real question is: Was that TPS somewhat buffed by the taunting? I mean, Omen credits you with taunt aggro and calculates taht into TPS.
I'm not questioning you because I think you're lying, I'm questioning because I haven't really seen a pally consistantly do 1k+ without a +dam weap since they nerfed SoV frontloading.
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Postby rohanadin » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:18 pm

well if u doubt it come post on my guild forum as for this forum i will never post again, i said i took lessdmg and i did both times, pity i can,t post the first.
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Re: brutalus

Postby Ankiseth » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:41 pm

rohanadin wrote:well if u doubt it come post on my guild forum as for this forum i will never post again, i said i took lessdmg and i did both times, pity i can,t post the first.


See, the thing about this, and the only reason people are citing the stomps is:
Less damage, or less damage per hit? There's a difference dude. Case and point: I took like 50k more damage on a kalec kill than the warrior tank.
Does this mean I'm squishier? no.
He died and I was tanking enraged Kalec. Who hits for a good 8-10k. 5-10 hits, and suddenly I'm up a *ton* of damage.
Seeing what I mean? Citing total damage taken really doesn't help, because different tanks tank for different times.
I take 1/2 the damage of the other flame tank on Illidan. Doesn't mean he's bad, just means we burn mine first.
Conventional wisdom states that unless there is a huge gear disparity or gemming/enchanting/gearing choices, that a paladin *will* take more per hit damage. That doesn't mean we're worse, and I'm not saying you're lying. Maybe you did take less damage per hit. I just think *maybe* there's some disconnect between what everyone is talking about.

On your WWS:
Your average hit(phyical) was 5105. His was 4943.
Brutallus landed: 127 out of a possible 227 hits on you.
Likewise, 166 out of a possible 295 hits on your warrior.

You did take less damage, but took *slightly* more average damage. Your evasion rates were the same, so overall on the boss I *doubt* you'dve taken much more than him (obv depending on RNG).

Basically: You took less damage. But people are saying you took slightly higher AVERAGE HITS.
Does this mean you're a bad Brut tank? Not at all.

If I were to say something, I'd point out everyone needs to get off your back. However, you should try to be clearer as to what you are referring to when you cite WWSs and examples. You did fine. tanked brut successfully, grats.
Everyone always gets so anal about their theorycrafting....
Last edited by Ankiseth on Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: brutalus

Postby fiorina » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:43 pm

rohanadin wrote:why do ppl have to pick out the faults just a simple grats would be ok

http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... php?t=1749

rohanadin wrote:Wish i had the wws for my first try i had 1 extra stomp and still took less dmg :)

I guarantee you will take more damage than warrior if you will have same gear and skill level. There is no hidden skill button or secret rotation which make you take less dmg than warrior, believe me.
You gonna block a lot more, but he have more avoidance because of Tier items, gun and tank weapon + he can shieldwall through stomp, not talking about defensive stance.

Paladin is good on that fight because of very good threat even with lesser gear and with non-stacked group.

Everytime someone jumps "OMG, I R TOOKING LESS DMG THAN WARRI GZ ME" I know the reality is just few WWS clicks away.
In your case is warrior slacking with Ironshields and you had 2 avoidance trinkets. Had warrior use the same amount of consumables and same gear, you would take more damage.

/kiss

Note: Shit and RNG happens. So exceptions are possible, but statistically is above statement correct.
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