Frost Nova - Am I being unreasonable?

How to get started.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, lythac

Frost Nova - Am I being unreasonable?

Postby Brave Sir Thalus » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:39 pm

I'm a Tankadin in a community that's midway through T5 content (3/4 and 3/6). I've recently been having a bit of an argument with our Mages about AoE..

Several of our mages are Frost Specced, and have the Frostbite talent. During AoE tanking, this talent REALLY Grinds My Gears! The two main problems are at the Dragonhawks before Al'ar and the Murlocs in the last 25% of Morogrim, when we move up into the far corridor and tank him there.

At the Dragonhawks, as I'm sure you all know, they kick you around all over the place - so we have to be mobile, and adapt and move to a different corner. In the last 25% of Morogrim, it's far harder to pick up the Murlocs and sometimes I have to run around to pick them off healers.

The problem I have is that sometimes the Murlocs get frozen in place by Frost Nova or by the Frostbite talent, so when I move they stay where they are. When a target is Frozen, they turn and hit the highest threat target in melee range - which is a healer or a mage, usually. The healer or the mage then dies.

Am I being completely unreasonable by asking the mages not to freeze things? Should I just STFU and GTFO? :roll:
Thalus - L70 - Argent Dawn UK

YNWA
Brave Sir Thalus
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:53 pm
Location: UK

Postby QuantumDelta » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:21 pm

Problem one:

Several of our mages are Frost Specced

... :<

Problem two:

and have the Frostbite talent.

.............I'm not even gonna start.


Fortunately I'm a raid leader.

My mages are pretty much outright banned from, and get a SERIOUS chewing out for frost novaing, by pretty much all our officers and more experienced raiders, unless it's done intelligently.

Problem is - it almost never is.
Frost nova's are an "I'm alright jack" spell all the way up to Illidan which is the first time It's ever _useful_ when you have a tankadin.

Otherwise people FNing get people killed, get themselves killed, and potentially wipe raids.

Some of my more strict officers and myself even get finicky about Dragons Breath on rare occasions since it forces the mob to re-evaluate it's threat table and can potentially let loose a previously entirely controlled horde of mobs.


I would char-grill most of your mages simply for being frost but being retarded enough to FN mobs away from a tank, and spec frostbite in a PvE spec.
Ahh meh....
nani shini umareta no? nani shini koko ni iru?
ikinokoritai, umaranai kizum, hikari osoreteta
Image
User avatar
QuantumDelta
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:31 am

Postby Invisusira » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:36 pm

While I can't gripe too much about raiding frost spec'd (because that's what I do on my mage, and am at the top of the meters as 0/0/61 might I add), I CAN about mages freezing things.

As posted above, mages who freeze things in place with frost nova without being told to get their asses CHEWED. Any mage who does can potentially - and very easily - wipe the raid. If they do it twice, they are booted from raid.

As for frostbite, it shouldn't be a problem unless they're being idiots (but then again, they ARE using frost nova) and attacking before a mob gets to you. My whole RAID knows never to attack before mobs get to where I am pulling to; once again making a good example of someone once or twice will quell the problem quickly.
User avatar
Invisusira
Moderator
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:23 pm
Location: alt-tabbed

Postby Dorvan » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:20 pm

Indeed,

Frost Nova -- unacceptable 98% of the time.

Frostbite-- generally not a problem.
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Postby majiben » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:40 am

I hate mages using frost nova when there is the slightest chance I may need to reposition a pack of mobs. Luckily the only tme i've had trouble with this in my raiding career is on the dragon hawk adds which gets people killed. In Heroics it drives me batty, especailly in H SH where I need to move to get the hunter mobs into melee and on the guantlet.

Demand that they refran from frost nova unless the mobs are tearing the face off a healer.
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Postby Dendrah » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:12 am

I hate mages using frostnova, shammy's using earth elemental totems, rogues loving to stun the add that runs for the healer, warrior charging mobs I frisbee'ed, lock and priests who fear mobs of them,...

Anything to be honest that disables my RD and keeps the mobs on the spot without really CC'ing it.
Dendrah
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:07 pm

Postby Séti » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:02 pm

Ok, first post here.

I've played a Mage since release back in 2005 and he's been frost since he hit 60 raiding MC & the like. I've also got a tankadin on the level.

About FN with a frosty. Within raids I agree to a part that it has no part in raiding although due to my personal play style I will FN to start an AoE string. This is followed by a Cone of Cold which wipes the frost nova. Now this I can see will annoy for AoE tanking, however all you need is to get yer mages to hold off briefly until you get aggro and then they can pile in.

Within 5 mans it can save a healers life if they are getting their arse chewed & if they're actually clever enough to take a couple of steps back, believe me I've had healers not do this, allowing you to pick the loose mobs back up. Better the squishy mage gets killed than the one keeping you alive and providing the ol' blue rage.
Séti
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:24 am

Postby Indago » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:50 pm

Since lvl 30 my mage has been specc'ed frost and at lvl 70 I can more than keep up with fire mage dps, so I really dont see a problem raiding as frost-given that you know what your doing, same as any class/spec.
And for a mage, frost or otherwise, that would include not frostnova'ing unless under very certain circumstances, i.e. to save a healer- which is generally the only time Ill use it. Or if Im not with an aoe tank and a pull requires lots of aoe (like the worms before the 2nd boss in mgt.)
As for frostbite, which really doesnt proc that often, at least it doesnt seem to for me, it is useful for setting up shatter combos and generally wont freeze the mob for more than a second or 2 until I can get off the frostbolt/icelance. And even if it does proc, only an idiot would start to dps before the tank was rdy.
Image

"It's not how hard you hit, it's how hard you get hit, and keep moving forward."-R.Pausch
User avatar
Indago
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 2:25 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere

Postby Amirya » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:00 pm

My mage, also, is frost.

I have been known to FN within raids.

1) After a paladin tank has aggro via 2 consecrates, and doesn't care if I do or not (this is followed by Blizzard, so it breaks right away anyway)

2) They're chewing a healer's face off (and usually the healers are next to me, so we all move back)

3) Warrior/druid tank is doing an AoE pull on non-elites, and have them into position.

I don't FN under any other circumstance (unless one counts accidental hit because it's right next to Ice Barrier)
Fetzie wrote:The Defias Brotherhood is back, and this time they are acting as racketeers in Goldshire. Anybody wishing to dance for money must now pay them protection money or be charged triple the normal amount when repairing.
Amirya
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3938
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:59 am

Postby Martie » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:59 pm

Amirya wrote:My mage, also, is frost.

I have been known to FN within raids.

1) After a paladin tank has aggro via 2 consecrates, and doesn't care if I do or not (this is followed by Blizzard, so it breaks right away anyway)

So you are standing closer to the mobs then you need to and wasting mana.
2) They're chewing a healer's face off (and usually the healers are next to me, so we all move back)
That can mean two things. Either the tank sucks, and he has no right to complain, or the tank lost aggro due to fear, scattershot, whatever. In situation one, you are correct to frost nova. In situation two, you are preventing them from walking back to the tank, which is a bad thing.
3) Warrior/druid tank is doing an AoE pull on non-elites, and have them into position.

I don't FN under any other circumstance (unless one counts accidental hit because it's right next to Ice Barrier)

I generally don't care what you do to nonelites, but accidental frost novas are about as bad as accidental bubbles.

Frost nova has a lot of uses, but barely any in a group situation.
I'm about to drop the hammer...
...and dispense some indiscriminate justice!

This is my armory profile
Martie
 
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:27 pm

Postby search66 » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:15 am

Dendrah wrote:I hate mages using frostnova, shammy's using earth elemental totems, rogues loving to stun the add that runs for the healer, warrior charging mobs I frisbee'ed, lock and priests who fear mobs of them,...

Anything to be honest that disables my RD and keeps the mobs on the spot without really CC'ing it.


QFT... My biggest gripe is warriors who charge.
User avatar
search66
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Baltimore, MD

Postby Manius » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:44 am

"When to Frost Nova" is one of those skills a mage has to learn. Along with "When to Sheep" and "When to shut up, sit down and die".

I've found that "show target's target" is one of the most wonderful tools in WoW today. When a mob breaks to murder the healer, it's very easy to see if it's been pulled back before you frost nova.

Unfortunately, like with most DPS classes, people can be utter retards in their class and still "function", which sort of removes the immediate incentive at not sucking.
Manius
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:15 am
Location: Thule

Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:15 am

Not unreasonable at all. Frost nova and frost bite stick the monster in place, which means it'll eat whoever is close enough. If "whoever" isn't the tank, chaos is going to ensue very soon.

Frost nova can be useful in a raid. If a mob is already loose, FN with it away from others is a good way of buying some seconds.
Bite/nova on something heading to the tank/close to anyone is rightout stupid.
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15539
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Postby Martie » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:56 am

Manius wrote:"When to Frost Nova" is one of those skills a mage has to learn. Along with "When to Sheep" and "When to shut up, sit down and die".

I've found that "show target's target" is one of the most wonderful tools in WoW today. When a mob breaks to murder the healer, it's very easy to see if it's been pulled back before you frost nova.

Unfortunately, like with most DPS classes, people can be utter retards in their class and still "function", which sort of removes the immediate incentive at not sucking.

Mages don't need to learn multiple skills for instances.
Just one.

'Do as you are told.'
I'm about to drop the hammer...
...and dispense some indiscriminate justice!

This is my armory profile
Martie
 
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:27 pm

Postby Khisvir » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:39 pm

My mage is all of lev 14, so I don't have that much experience...but what about kiting them into the consecrate radius and frost nova-ing them right there?
Space for rent - reasonable rates
User avatar
Khisvir
 
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:57 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

Next

Return to Basic Training & Talents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests