I got creamed in Heroic BM :(

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I got creamed in Heroic BM :(

Postby Indago » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:54 pm

I guess Im posting just to see if/what I did wrong.

Im not sure what my armory says atm, I think I logged out in my healing set, but unbuffed I have 13k hp 496 def and am uncrushable with HS. With the consumables/buffs that day I was at 14.5k hp. The group was me, 2 hunters, a mage and a resto druid.

We were fine at the begining, then we wiped at the 2nd boss, mostly because mage 'forgot' to spellsteal the haste buff. Then the resto druid bailed and I got a guildie (also a resto druid) who I know is a good healer with around 1.5k +healing. The second time around we got to the last boss and I died right after the time stop, my hp was too low for the druid to get the heal off in time. After the wipe there was enough shield left that we ran back, buffed and got our hp up and were rdy to go again by the time the shield was 45%. So I go in again get aggro, then I get creamed during the 1st time stop, while covered in HoTs.

After that noone feels much like starting over, and the healer feels guilty and I feel guilty and we both apologize and one of the hunters say its not the druids fault and kinda implies that its mine. Was he right? Was there anything I could have done to survive (other than LoH, heal pot, or bubble, all of which where on cd)? I know I had a solid healer behind me, so I get the feeling I was the problem.
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Postby Shoju » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:53 pm

Man, I don't get it. I ran Hbm with less than what you were at and I didn't have a single problem.

I'm at 12.8k hp 15k Armor, and 530 Def. You want a LOT of dodge in that fight.

as a tankadin though, I don't go much for resto druid healers in 5 mans. We have 1 in guild that I would run with, but I know her IRL, and I know that she is on top of her game.

questions I would have.

1.) did you keep holy shield up on last boss? It's imperative that you do so.
2.) Was your mana an issue in the last fight? Were you able to keep a good ratation up?
3.) Was the druid keeping your HP up high enough? HoT's are great for that last fight, but he hits like a mug. Your tree needs to understand that they will have to drop some "real" heals on you (not just hot's). If you hit a time stop with <50% hp, you're probably going down in a heap I don't care how many HoT's you have on you.
4.) Did you have health pots? Crushing a pot in that fight is never a bad thing.
5.) You realize that he doesn't crush and that no Heroic boss will crush? You realize that you can stack your gear to get better HP when you are in a heroic?
6.) What Aura were you running?
7.) Do you have the Adamantine Figurine? That thing is about 2% mitigation for a pally (less once you are better geared) in a heroic. I know that you can't time the use for a time stop, but popping it early can give your healer a time to "ramp up" heals on you. The assumption of mitigation is based on theory-ing out your tank gear level based on healing gear. THis could be terribly wrong if your tank gear vastly surpasses your healing gear. But, until you hit 16-17k armor, it's between 1.6 and 1.9 % mitigation.
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Re: I got creamed in Heroic BM :(

Postby Kelaan » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:08 pm

Indago wrote:The group was me, 2 hunters, a mage and a resto druid.....
So I go in again get aggro, then I get creamed during the 1st time stop, while covered in HoTs.


Those hunters need to learn to freaking use Scorpid Sting and Tranquilizing Shot.

It nearly trivializes the encounter, as the only times I've seen tanks die are when he frenzies just before a time stop. (He usu does it a few seconds before, so it's VERY rare that I've been unable to tranq it.) Have one of the hunters basically say "I'm here to keep the tank alive", and forget DPS. It's not at all a DPS race on the last boss, unless your healer has no mana.

Was there anything I could have done to survive (other than LoH, heal pot, or bubble, all of which where on cd)? I know I had a solid healer behind me, so I get the feeling I was the problem.


Make sure you have Devotion aura on for the armor, Kings for the health buffer, perhaps food ... but I can't think of anything you did wrong. I don't think you can block while stunned, so holy shield makes little difference.

edit: Great point about +armor trinket stacking, and the need to have more than HoTs on you, Shoju.
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Postby Spectrum » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:52 pm

I've done it with less gear and healed it with tanks with less gear. The second boss seems to be all about the DPS being fast enough and ignoring the adds.

The final boss I've never had a problem, particularly with a druid who leaves up huge stacks of HoTs.

In other words, read what the other people say, not me.. But I don't htink it was you :)
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Postby Martie » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:32 pm

According to wowwiki, you can break the time stop with a pvp trinket.

Do bubbles work there, by the way? If they do, you could bubble yourself, bubble the healer, unbubble yourself and keep going.
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Postby Dendrah » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:30 pm

I always consider it a good test for my group to just have them wait at the entrance and pull ALL the trash. If that gives problems I don't continue.
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Postby ldeboer » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:46 pm

The boss you are dying at is temporus and he can be a pain at depending on how lucky you get with dodges until your outgear the encounter.

DPS has nothing to do with the problem

This:

Mortal Wound is a stacking debuff which reduces the effect of healing by 10%. This attack stacks quickly and can only be mitigated with dodge/parry/block/miss. A priest's Power Word: Shield and trinkets with similar effects can also mitigate the effect.

Its a red looking debuff and the moment you see it you need to employ one of two tactics

1.) Proc your avoidance trinket
2.) Kite tank moving backwards in a small circle

Preferably both.
We added it to http://www.wowwiki.com/Temporus some time ago.

Yes the haste buff makes the effect worse but even with that gone with tanks with lower dodge/parry will suffer tremendously by the stacking debuff.

You get 3 or 4 stacks of that debuff on you and I assure you your healer is going to struggle.

Now based on the fact you are dying on the time stop I would say your avoidance and armor is too low for the encounter ... you are taking too much damage before the timestop and then getting smashed in it. Suggestion is try using free action pot to up your avoidance or stoneshield pot to increase your armor. You need to take less damage before the time stop or mitigate more damage in it because you dont have avoidance in the timestop.
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Postby caboom » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:53 pm

Tell ur healer to stop dreaming and keep u topped off always, not just last boss, and ye time-stop is bubbleable trough, on aeonus u had 1 of 2 problems, healer didn't heal for enuf(tell em to save 1 of his instans for after time stop if needed), if he was not running 3 lb stacks+rejuv+regrowth then he needs to as much as possible, and if it's not that then u need a better equiped healer.
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Re: I got creamed in Heroic BM :(

Postby Indago » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:07 pm

Thanks for the tips guys, and to answer some questions, I do have the http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27891 , and the 1st try I used it right after the 1st timestop, the 2nd time I didnt get the chance. I was using ret aura for both tries but looking back ya'll are probably right, devo would have been a good idea. I keep HS up as much as I could, though the timestops messed with my rotaion a bit.

Those hunters need to learn to freaking use Scorpid Sting and Tranquilizing Shot.

^Never occured to me that Id have to tell 2 badge/kara geared hunters this, had a tank told me that while I was on my hunter I would have just said 'Well, duh.' but I guess when working in pugs its a good idea to hold ppls hands, and talk to them like their 3 year olds :roll:

As for buffs, I had http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=25898 , http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27662, and http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=17055.

Thanks again :)
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Postby enix » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:28 pm

I find tanking everything and letting dps just burn the portal guy works the best.
Need a good healer to do this though, so just keep that in mind.
As for the second boss, not sure how much he is hitting you for, but is the dps burning him fast enough?
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