KJ Mage Sinister Reflections?

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KJ Mage Sinister Reflections?

Postby Ankiseth » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:21 am

Right. now I ran into what I can only *hope* is a bug with these beauties, but I'd like to see what others have to say.

PROBLEM:
3 of the 4 mages hit me with 2 fireballs over the time period of .95 seconds. I went from 21.4k hp(topped off) to dead because of 6 fireballs 2 fire bloom ticks(had to run through. can't really avoid so it's a moot point on these.)

Has anyone else encountered this/has a solution to it? In previous attempts I've had next to no problem with mages/locks. Their fireballs tend to be spread out every 2-2.5 seconds or so.

I'm fairly certain this has to do with that 4th add aggro'ing and their fireballs resetting due to it, but once again, just throwing a shout out to see if anyone else has run into this problem.
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Postby enbee » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:57 am

1) Mages blink to KJ on reflection %'s (if possible with fireblooms, else they close up a bit further)
2) Scream like a girl on vent to make your healers aware of the incoming punishement
3) ????
4) Profit
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Postby Ryu » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:08 am

enbee wrote:1) Mages blink to KJ on reflection %'s (if possible with fireblooms, else they close up a bit further)
2) Scream like a girl on vent to make your healers aware of the incoming punishement
3) ????
4) Profit


:)
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Postby Ankiseth » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:16 am

enbee wrote:1) Mages blink to KJ on reflection %'s (if possible with fireblooms, else they close up a bit further)
2) Scream like a girl on vent to make your healers aware of the incoming punishement
3) ????
4) Profit


Ok. I *love* the tips. Just... What do I do about the .95 second gib?

I mean, LITERALLY .95 seconds from full to dead. I had a lifebloom tick in there.

.95 - fireballx3
.45 - fireballx3
(there's 2 firebloom ticks in there somewhere)
0.00 - dead
+0.03 - My JoR hits.

<.<
>.>
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Postby PsiVen » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:00 pm

1) Get more HP if you can. Casters are far deadlier than melee, so stack stamina and get Commanding Shout for reflections if at all possible.
2) Prevent being hit by 2 fireblooms at once. Whether that means having casters group up at 85/55/25 or just having people GTFO your way and bloom someone else instead, whatever works as long as you aren't getting gibbed.
3) Be watchful of shadow spikes, some are unavoidable but most aren't.
4) Bring fewer mages and hope it doesn't happen very often.
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Postby Mithos » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:30 pm

I shout for mages/locks to run in melee before reflections - but I don't think they listen very often :P. Something we have to work on. I am currently running with 22.2k HP with sta food, flask of fort and CS and have almost died on them a few times, they do really hurt.

You can interupt their casts if you have sharp shamans/mages, they are also silencable because we have seen the silence effect from counterspell stick to them. This is not very reliable due to the already tight DPS and healing but if even one gets interupted that could save your ass. Also if they are interupted they will follow you for a fair while.
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Postby rozakk » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:29 pm

most of our casters dont bother running in for reflections so i always run to them. ontop of announcing it, i usually save all my shit for mages/locks; hs / loh. i'll have a feral druid trading taunts with me so when one gets low the other picks up a few.
i only have about 20.8k hps for that fight. tbh as we usually only bring 1 or 2 mages for that fight ive rarely gotten them 8) i think out of the 3 times i remember getting mage reflections i blew loh on myself twice.
theres only so much we can do to mitigate the damage from some of the reflections, the weight really falls on ur healers to pull u thru some pretty spikey situations.
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Postby inthedrops » Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:37 am

For what it's worth, I don't have a problem dieing anymore to any of the reflections. The only thing that gets me these days is my own stupidity such as having a couple rogues to my back and not seeing it quickly enough.

I used to use a high stamina set but I've since switched to more avoidance and I think it's been a positive overall benefit. Paladins are the only mobs that scare me a bit.

My current unbuffed stats for tanking reflections are:
17137 health
19659 armor
62.87% avoidance (31.08% dodge)
17.2% block with 470 BV.
604 spell damage.

For buffs I use Wizard Oil, Fort flask, and +30 stam food. I know these things overwrite/cancel each other out but I equip Illidan's shield, Hyjal rep Ring, and Shadowmoon Insignia.

I prefer the Shadowmoon Insignia over the Pocketwatch just because of casters. Melee mobs are not much of a danger to me as long as my back is safe.
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:03 pm

How is avoidance a benefit over stamina if paladins are a concern and other melee aren't? The majority of their burst is Holy and hits during stun (which you can FAP for much of their uptime).
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Postby Ankiseth » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:21 pm

My original post was more a question as to if anyone else has run into sub 1 second caster gibs, and if so, knows WHY.

I know how to tank the reflections. The gear/execution is NOT the problem except with mage adds. And even then the issue only comes from knowing if there is a way to avoid this (what I can only assume is a) bug.

I KNOW:
- The casters are supposed to cast every roughly 2-2.5 seconds.
- Stam stacking is nice for this. blah blah.

WHAT I AM WONDERING:
- Why is the second fireball barrage happening .4 seconds after the first? I *think* it has something to do with that 4th mob(if at all.)
- If not, is it just server lag in action?
- Has anyone else who has encountered this problem found a solution better than just bringing FR pots?
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Postby inthedrops » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:46 pm

PsiVen wrote:How is avoidance a benefit over stamina if paladins are a concern and other melee aren't?


I'm simply saying they're the only ones that make me sweat. Not only can they stun you but they can stun your healers/dispellers.

PsiVen wrote:The majority of their burst is Holy and hits during stun (which you can FAP for much of their uptime).


Their holy shock is REALLY weak and while I didn't realize they only use it during stuns (is that what you're saying?) I reviewed two fraps'd instances of Paladin reflections and their corresponding WWS report and > 80% of their damage is from melee. Holy shock averages for about 1580 while melee hits average around 2450.

Here's a couple WWS instances with paladin reflections in case it helps:
http://wowwebstats.com/vsrj2mqwc1gsy?s= ... 646c0003e4
http://wowwebstats.com/vsrj2mqwc1gsy?s= ... #abilities

And their corresponding fraps:
http://files.filefront.com/04avi/;11573 ... einfo.html
http://files.filefront.com/17avi/;11575 ... einfo.html

Note that in the first video you'll see a bug where the reflections moved INSTANTLY after they spawned instead of waiting the customary 4 seconds or so. Anyone else ever see that happen before?
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Postby inthedrops » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:50 pm

Ankiseth,

Haven't seen it happen and not sure what to suggest. I didn't realize you were suggesting it was bugged and looking for confirmation.
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Postby Ankiseth » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:25 pm

inthedrops wrote:Ankiseth,

Haven't seen it happen and not sure what to suggest. I didn't realize you were suggesting it was bugged and looking for confirmation.


taking a 21.4k gib in <1 sec kinda left my jaw on the floor until well after the raid...

I just wanted to know if:
A) anyone has seen this before
B) knows what causes it (if anything)
C) knows how to prevent it

Also, any other buggy sinister reflection experience might be nice.
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Postby inthedrops » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:35 pm

Ankiseth wrote:Also, any other buggy sinister reflection experience might be nice.


As shown in the first video I linked, I saw one time where the reflections spawned and instantly ran off. I wasn't the only one who noticed so it wasn't an issue on my side.
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Postby enbee » Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:09 am

I run KJ in a tps/avoidance(blockmix), only have 20.6k hp for it (don't get commshout or imp, I'm in a caster group)<- I'm logged in this right now actually

And allthough I've died on mages, mainly due to lack of healer focus (I take pretty little damage on some reflections), the only time I can recall being gibbed was when I wasn't topped.

Do you go into melee range of the mages? This might slow down the casting, if you're not allready(they also melee).

Use your bubble/cancel macro to avoid fireballs when you're too low to eat them, but be very quick with it

I use fire aura

I spec spell warding. (I usually don't)

I flask blinding light so we can nuke them down quickly, aoe for most, melee/singletarget help on some (dispel spamming shadowpriests/shamans on priests, dps warrior + enhance shaman coming over to punish/interupt the mages)

That's about what I do, wether it's helpfull to you or not, I don't know
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