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Ready to Tank Gorefiend?

Naj'entus, Supremus, Akama, Gorefiend, Gurtogg Bloodboil, RoS, Sharaz, Council, Illidan

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Ready to Tank Gorefiend?

Postby kegnar » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:20 am

Hello,

I originally rolled my pally to be a tank but the guild I oringally was in had a hard time using paladins let alone as tanks. After a life as a healer I found a home as a tankadin.

I know my gear needs work, and that about 100-135 badges will go a very long way towards helping my gear. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... r&n=Kegnar
This is currently my Threat set, I have def trinkets(epic crafted turtle thing) and SSO shields as well for additional avoidance

What I want to know, as a paladin what are some thresholds to shoot for to tank Gorefiend. I believe that the first 45-60 seconds without out constructs is the most important time to burn down with some dps.

I recently tanked the crap out of Supremus. No one really got to 50% of my threat level and I was plowing through all my cooldowns etc the entire time but I was also at full mana the whole fight. To me that suggests I may be taking a bit too much damage, BUT clearly 50% block rate is accounting for a large portion of threat.

I guess I am excited about finding a guild that allows paladins to tank DPS races since we tend to shine a bit more there in terms of not threat capping the dps.

However, I am skeptical that 50-52% avoidance may be a tad low for progression attempts/we've killed this guy 2 times attempts...

Any help/advice?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:44 am

You really, REALLY need more avoidance and maybe 1k more hp. To tank him as progression. Threat comes in second place and this is the easiest burn fight ever, so dps can and should stay above your own threat as necessary(they don't pull if they're any smart).

And no, clearly 50% block rate does not account for a large portion of your threat. That's specially true on Teron, that attacks very slowly. The one boss I know where holy shield = imba threat is Brutallus, but he attacks once per second.
A single crushing blow from Teron can take you to 2k hp, tops. Gotta get another k in there
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Postby kegnar » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:39 am

What is moar avoidance? Whats the rule of thumb or a guideline to go by?

With Naj Boots, 2.4 chest, dodge ring and the Dodge helm from Hexlord in ZA, thats net gain 4% more avoidance. And actually ends up being close to equal, if not less hitpoints than I currently have. T6 gloves would be a nice influx as well but we still aren't talking more than 5% total avoidance with 5 ups. And its not like 5 ups come that quickly either. 5% is a fair amount but really, REALLY level?

It sounds like your saying you can't effectively tank Gorefiend until you surpass the content as a paladin... which is well epic fail imo. Subtract 2.3, 2.4, and ZA gear and pallies weren't close to avoiding 50% of the attacks unless wearing warrior gear and having gimped TPS.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:47 am

Not saying that you can't do, nor that you can only do overgeared. Just that with your hp and avoidance, an unlucky crush is very likely to instagib you.

And you're looking at things from a threat PoV. If you really own your dpsers with threat so much, you can safely drop some for more avoidance.
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Postby berbo2 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:04 am

HP - around 16,5k unbuffed
Avoidance (miss/parry/dodge) - 56-60 % preferably. More avoidance without much decreasing of SD is preferable as it increase the time between blocked hits and even those hurt a lot.
Threat is not an issue due to he is UD so exorsizm works fine.
Spam Ironshield pots - makes wonders in this fight, be ready to use LoH. ALWAYS keep HS up. Teron hits for 12+ k crushings, combined with shadow dmg its instant death.
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Postby Gray » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:48 am

It's a tough one. I would think you are ready but one or two more gear pieces would go a long, long way. I tanked him a while back and got knocked the crap out of, but still survived to tell the tale. Think i was around 32% dodge and 22.5k HP. Forget everything else you've tanked, this guy hits harder.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:49 am

berbo2 wrote:HP - around 16,5k unbuffed
Avoidance (miss/parry/dodge) - 56-60 % preferably. More avoidance without much decreasing of SD is preferable as it increase the time between blocked hits and even those hurt a lot.
Threat is not an issue due to he is UD so exorsizm works fine.
Spam Ironshield pots - makes wonders in this fight, be ready to use LoH. ALWAYS keep HS up. Teron hits for 12+ k crushings, combined with shadow dmg its instant death.
Eh not really.
He should be able to measure his own tps compared to his dps, and adjust accordingly. It's usually high since they always get chainmisdirected.

He can tank teron as it is. It's just too risky for my personal taste. I progression-tanked teron with 53%~ avoidance and about 1k more hp than he did, and maybe 100 less spell damage. Dunno how good a mark it is since I don't know his healers.
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Postby Azulito » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:33 pm

berbo2 wrote:HP - around 16,5k unbuffed
Avoidance (miss/parry/dodge) - 56-60 % preferably. More avoidance without much decreasing of SD is preferable as it increase the time between blocked hits and even those hurt a lot.
Threat is not an issue due to he is UD so exorsizm works fine.
Spam Ironshield pots - makes wonders in this fight, be ready to use LoH. ALWAYS keep HS up. Teron hits for 12+ k crushings, combined with shadow dmg its instant death.



http://www.wowhead.com/?item=22839 IMO
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Postby Worldie » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:45 pm

On non outgeared Teron, i'd sure say to spam ironshields :P

He still crushes me for OVER NINE THOUSAND (actually 15k) in full t6.
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Postby elson » Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:01 pm

Yes you can tank him as is but make sure you bring a stack of adult diapers as an additional raid consumable.

I don't see how its possible for you to have the EH to survive three hits in a row with your current gear so I'd recommend a little more avoidance to reduce the chance of you taking that third hit.

Your spell damage is somewhat low, so I would recommend a flask of blinding light vs a flask of fort. Agreeing with others here, ironshield potions are very useful, and at your gear level may be a requirement. He is going to hit you like a truck with what your armor is at. If you can find them armor scrolls are useful as well.

My setup for him puts me at 16.8k health, 51%ish pure avoidance, 437 spell damage(+80 with darkmoon card crusade), and just over 19k armor with devo before raid buffs. This is a bit more of a farming set up that focuses on being able to just barely survive three hits and get as much spell dmg as possible.

A progression set up with my gear level would have less spell dmg, a bit more avoidance, all the while still trying to maintain three-shot immunity.
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Postby kegnar » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:52 am

berbo2 wrote:HP - around 16,5k unbuffed
Avoidance (miss/parry/dodge) - 56-60 % preferably. More avoidance without much decreasing of SD is preferable as it increase the time between blocked hits and even those hurt a lot.


What T5 early T6 gives that much avoidance and still allows a pally to actually generate threat? I think 56-60% avoidance might be a bit on the fairytale side of things until you have your full set of LightBringers.

Thank you Elson. That is some markers I can shoot for. And actually look to be in line with tanking it as a progression boss.

Next Quetion regarding being ready to tank...

Upgrades that give me the most bang for the buck. I am going after these first.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33421 - Head
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33522 - Chest
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32245 - Feet


Am I missing anything that is in that Hyjal/Beginning BT/Badge/ZA phase of the game thats a huge avoidance upgrade? In particular rings? Badge dodge ring is an avoidance up yes but an over all down in uncrushability which I flirt with, ironically, in my avoidance/hp set.

Finally, probably belongs in a threat thread or gear thread, but which is going to generate more threat.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34009
or
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33283

Can the 1.6 weapon speed overcome the 19 extra damage in longish fights? Or does the 19 damage on the concecrates, holy shield, judgements and seal swings overcome the extra swing and seal swings hands down?
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Postby elfjorc » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:43 pm

kegnar wrote:
berbo2 wrote:HP - around 16,5k unbuffed
Avoidance (miss/parry/dodge) - 56-60 % preferably. More avoidance without much decreasing of SD is preferable as it increase the time between blocked hits and even those hurt a lot.


What T5 early T6 gives that much avoidance and still allows a pally to actually generate threat? I think 56-60% avoidance might be a bit on the fairytale side of things until you have your full set of LightBringers.

Thank you Elson. That is some markers I can shoot for. And actually look to be in line with tanking it as a progression boss.

Next Quetion regarding being ready to tank...

Upgrades that give me the most bang for the buck. I am going after these first.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33421 - Head
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33522 - Chest
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32245 - Feet


Am I missing anything that is in that Hyjal/Beginning BT/Badge/ZA phase of the game thats a huge avoidance upgrade? In particular rings? Badge dodge ring is an avoidance up yes but an over all down in uncrushability which I flirt with, ironically, in my avoidance/hp set.

Finally, probably belongs in a threat thread or gear thread, but which is going to generate more threat.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34009
or
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33283

Can the 1.6 weapon speed overcome the 19 extra damage in longish fights? Or does the 19 damage on the concecrates, holy shield, judgements and seal swings overcome the extra swing and seal swings hands down?


You can hit 55% avoidance easy, you might just have to pop Blinding Light, Wiz Oil and maybe stack a Shaman in the group if it absolutely comes down to that, or pop Destro Pots. I'm pretty sure I hit 55% avoidance on my pally which is an alt hence hasn't gotten any T5 or T6 loot except badge and ZA stuff, of course that's sacrificing a bunch of threat, but you're talking actually having T5 content and early T6 stuff. If your survivability comes into issue, stack avoidance and then stack group to give yourself a Resto Shammy dropping Wrath or some such.

Btw, SoR scales with weapon speed. So ... the +dmg on the Hammer is the better weapon in every way.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:49 am

elfjorc wrote:Btw, SoR scales with weapon speed. So ... the +dmg on the Hammer is the better weapon in every way.
This specifically piece of information is, pretty much, false. SoR won't do more or less damage on a slower or faster weapon. It's DPS is always going to be the same. Damage will increase with a slower weapon? Yes, it will. But over time? It's all the same. Using a 2.0 weaopn with SoR will cause double the damage of using SoR with a 1.0 weapon... because the 1.0 one attacks twice as much.


BUT ANYWAYZ. Hammer of Judgment > Amani punisher.
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Postby Holyfuri » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:12 am

Another peice of advice, stack avoidance buffs, imo.

When I tanked him for progression, I had:

Ironshield pots to chain chug
Agility food eaten
Elixir of Major Fortitude
Elixir of Major Agility
Scrolls of Agility

All added up I had 65% avoidance buffed.
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Postby 2ndNin » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:54 am

56%+ avoidance is not fairy tale, I have no T6 at all, and I sit at that, and with avoidance trinkets on and belt (yeah swapping Badge belt for Gurtogg's :P) I can sit at something like 61% avoidance.

Teron still hits like a truck. Getting crushed is really no fun. But its doable with good spell damage and good avoidance at this level without T6, he is really a pre-T6 boss anyway since he sits in the "likely have gloves, but nothing else" T6 bosses point, Shoulders are 2 bosses up, head needs archi etc.
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