SWP Raid groups - Change every boss?

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Worldie » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:40 am

You could save yourself to respec if you just specced holy pvp (that is, holy with imp RF)
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Postby Elsie » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:44 am

I don't think I'd respec multiple times a week for a raid unless the bank helped. Kinda silly to me.

Our bank pays for progression repairs, required respecs, main spec gear enchants, main spec gems, progression night flasks, and sometimes other consumables if you need them.

...of course, the price is we pass on all drops in raids. Any additional costs are easily covered by selling a ZA bear or two, though.
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Postby Arquine » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:52 am

Worldie wrote:You could save yourself to respec if you just specced holy pvp (that is, holy with imp RF)


as concecration is stationary, I think I'll find not having holy shield a big issue trying to hold agro on skeletons while moving them to the tree spot.

and the raiders aren't actually helping by reducing agro ouput, running beams properly etc.


to Elsie: well, no one complains when we're wiping at Brutallus and tanks use agi scrolls (3g), ironshield pots, nightmare seeds. Their cost can easily come up to 300g per wipe night, while rogues barely need to pay for any wipes (unless they overagro and die).
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Postby Worldie » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:54 am

Holy Shield is very minor part of the threat there, since with ~15 skeletons hitting you, it's gone in like 1 second. It's basically only from Consecration and Spiritual Attunement (and Retribution Aura).
The only thing you might ask for is to wait for AoE until after the first breath.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Arquine » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:57 am

well that means the I'll have quite some agro on the initial 15 skeletons without relying on concecrate

maybe I need a new way to do it, because I normally alternate between concecration and holy shield to grab initial agro while trying to kite them.

i.e. (straight line beam)

concecrate at start
run towards middle of beam, judgement, exorcism,
run further, holy shield
start running backwards
concecrate
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Postby Thark » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:11 am

I didn't realize so many "protection" paladins respecced so much here. I tank every fight (haven't done Kil'jaeden yet). While I do change the groups around a fair bit as I mentioned before, I don't often have people respec much. Currently we just have a Holy Paladin respec for M'uru Void Spawn tanking, and if necessary we might have a Shaman respec for the Twins.

I use the guild bank to pay for respec costs, and repairs on new content. We also pass out marks for new content as well.

With probably 28 or so people I think we could do every fight with optimal balance. The biggest change is using 10 healers for Twins, and 6 for M'uru.
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Postby Karador » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:08 pm

I wish i could get the GM to see it that way Thark but being that he is a Prot War along with GM and RL . . . . .


Yea you see my point i am sure.


WTB a Tank spot like yours.

So far we are working on Felmyst and i get to respec Ret for Brut then back for Felmyst or i will never see the fight pretty much. GM does not trust pally tanks me thinks.
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Postby knaughty » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:35 pm

We use the "standard" group make-ups, so there's a lot of switching from boss to boss. Roughl even split of respecs and swaps.

Progression kill of Twins last night, trying M'uru Sat/Sun.

I go as Prot/Ret (no full-time Ret pally ATM, if there was, I'd probably get to tank the whole instance).

We have a Boomkin and an Enhance shaman who can both do healing specs, and swap a couple here and there.

Big issue, as others have mentioned, is healer numbers. Stupid ficking instances requires 9/7/9/10/6 for first five bosses. Encounter designer needs a cactus enema.
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Postby Thark » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:54 am

Karador wrote:I wish i could get the GM to see it that way Thark but being that he is a Prot War along with GM and RL . . . . .


Yeah ... that's me except I'm a Protection Paladin.

I don't have a problem sitting out, except that it's hard to lead a raid from the sidelines. I rerolled just after we started Sunwell and had a lack of tanks, so I was not a progression tank until we were on Felmyst. I would swap back to my Hunter for Brutallus. I specced Ret for the Twins one night, but that's rough because I like to have just 1 melee group for healing reasons which means after 2 tanks there's only 3 melee spots.

Generally we can use the best tank for the job though. We have a high attendance tank of every class. It's a nice setup.
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Postby Meliora » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:03 am

It seems like for our raids that the prot paladin does not usually respec, however the other tanks do. Our raid group is very focused and there is no drama about being moved in and out of the raid depending on the encounter. Extra healers, melee, and paladins remain outside and are ready at a moments notice to zone in for an encounter.[/code]
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Postby Karador » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:07 pm

I don't mind sitting out either. What gets me is things like what just happened the other night.


Currently we have 4 Prot Wars ( 2 highly geared ones and 2 with most of the T6 gear )

2 Ferals ( one is long time member and officer and other is brand new )

2 Tankadins ( myself and one that was inactive for a long period and is behind the gear curve )


We go to do Sunwell the other night and the raid winds up with me in as ret for brut and the brand new prot warrior and the GM tanking Brut.

The whole " you tank hyjal waves " thing gets under my skin so bad because it took me sneaking in to tank gorefiend one night and having the usually threat capped melee going " HOLY SHIT @ the threat cap " to bring up the idea of someone other than a Prot War or feral tanking in end-game now without 10 + target beating on them.

I do not want the MT spot . I guess I just want the chance to do my damn job without people going " Can a Pally even tank this fight? "
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Postby Kezia » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:03 pm

Karador wrote:I do not want the MT spot . I guess I just want the chance to do my damn job without people going " Can a Pally even tank this fight? "


The only way to make that question disappear is to prove you can tank whatever you'd like. Push for it. Prove you can do it.
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Postby Arquine » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:59 pm

Kezia wrote:
Karador wrote:I do not want the MT spot . I guess I just want the chance to do my damn job without people going " Can a Pally even tank this fight? "


The only way to make that question disappear is to prove you can tank whatever you'd like. Push for it. Prove you can do it.


first, your raid leader needs to give you a chance. Other raid leaders rather make a dps warrior respec than use a prot pala for the job.
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Postby Karador » Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:49 am

Talked to him a bit. Seems that the issues i had were kind of not needed. He basically told me that With us only having 3 Brut Kills under our belt he wanted Shield Wall and Last Stand tanking Brut but now that can change since the last kill went so smooth.


Also told that I have a Tanking slot for every fight in Sunwell coming up as he knows if i am online ( Felmyst, Twins, Muru and KJ ) so i am a happy tanker again :)
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Postby Thark » Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:21 am

Doesn't it seem odd that they don't think you can tank Brutallus, but would let you do Twins? I'd figure if they pick 2 tanks for Brut, they'd stick with them for Twins.
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