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The 4 Chest guide to ZA

Nalorakk, Akil'zon, Jan'alai, Halazzi, Malacrass, Zul'jin

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The 4 Chest guide to ZA

Postby Tirion » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:24 pm

Some of the Basic things you are going to need to get a successful bear run done in ZA is a good raid composition, well geared players, and like always, non-retards.

one of the best raid comps that I've used is:

Prot pally
Feral duid

Resto shaman
Holy priest/ Resto druid

dps:
Mage
Warlock
ench shaman
rogue
hunter
SP

Group comp is:

G1
Rogue
Ench shaman
Hunter
Feral druid
Prot pally

G2
Mage
Warlock
SP
healer 1
healer 2

Their is obviously some leniency in raid compositions but I find having almost 1 of every class is very useful (sometimes using a Prot war instead of a feral druid, then using a resto druid instead of a CoH priest can be beneficial)

The path that's going to be taken is
Akil'zon->Nalorakk->Jan'alai->Halazzi

For a secured trip investing in elixirs/flasks and food/weapon buffs is well worth the gold.

Akil'zon trash:

The gauntlet can very quickly turn into a nightmare if adds run loose and 1 shot a healer, The key makeup here is to have your Prot pally up in front with the feral druid picking up adds that spawn in the bottom. Mark the wind walkers to be killed first and ignore the meele mobs. Have the pally run through the first pair and into the second pair and begin tanking, making sure to keep a consecration down at all times to pick up the bird adds. continue ignoring the meele adds untill you have killed all the wind walkers and have pulled the tempest. have the druid bring the spawns from the bottom into the group and start AOEing with the SP/meele dps focusing down the tempest.

Akil'zon

When on the boss make sure you have at least one player in the raid with their sound effects and music at their lowest settings and ambiance at the highest, this will give you the cue as to when to clump up on the boss, the trigger is going to be a rainfall sound. The first storm is generally pretty close to the boss mods, but after that don't trust them

Next mount up and run over to Nalorakk.

Trash:

Druid should go into cat form and DPS while the paladin tanks the first 3 sets of trash. Basic concept is to kill the casters first. When you get to the 2 bear riders, have one tanked away from the raid and the other tanked next to it at the top of the steps so that the tanks don't get overlapping buffs. On the final pull to Nalorakk have the tanks pull their war bears to either side of the platform. You have a few CC options here. Have the hunter trap and mage sheep, have the paladin tank both, or have the SP MC one and "tank" the other with the MC add. Do whichever works for you.

Nalorakk:

This fight is quite simple, just make sure the tanks taunt when he shape shifts and you should be fine. We generally assign the lowergeared tank to human form.

Jan'alai trash:

DPS needs to be on the ball through these trash pulls. It's their responsibility to make sure the scouts don't pull anymore mobs. The first pull generally is started with a SP MCing the flame caster and druid/war charging the scout. The next pull is basically the same deal have druid/war charge the scout and have the paladin tank the trainer/dragon hawks. The next area is going to be the biggest threat of scouts pulling additional mobs. Make sure your entire raid stays close to one another and moves together, don't leave someone sitting behind drinking. Continue with the MC/tank untill you get to the steps leading to the platform, one of two things is going to happen here. The 2 Dragon hawk 1 trainer pat is going to be far enough away for your group to slip into the stone area, or you are going to have to kill it. If you have time to run into stone area, go ahead and make sure to pull the next group quickly, and onto the steps leading to Jan'alai's platform. after killing those drink/eat and apply rebuffs for paladins/food.

Jan'alai:

The druid will be Tanking the actual boss while the paladin (obviously) will be tanking all the birds. Assign 1-2 dps to finish off ONE of the hatchers and let the other run to a side and hatch all the eggs. It's important to have the hunter drop a frost trap ON the ramp so that the bird will trigger it, giving them more time running though Consecration. Keep the DPS on the boss untill the teleport/bomb phase starts. It is wise to have a "Designated spotter" for the tank because it can be hard to see the ground. Proceed to aoe down all the dragon hawks. Now if your dps is solid you should be around 40-45% at this point. Keep dpsing down the boss and all the eggs should hatch before the hatchers can begin hatching. Same deal, frost trap, wait for tank to have ALL the adds and finish them off.

Halazzi Trash:

you should have at least 12-14 minutes left on your timer (we usually have 20 or so) Run down the other side of the platform, to the left, avoiding the patrol of 2 mobs and run up the hill. Pull the group of Lynxes and AOE them down. Their will be another Patrol of 2 lynxes and 2 trainers, mark them and avoid them and proceed to run into the hut to the left (jump through the windows). Run alongside the stone structure to the path with the trainer and 2 Crocalisks. Kill him and run down to the bush area and have the Paladin AOE tank the mobs, kill and keep moving through this area. Once you get to the structure and have killed the first set of mobs move up into the front room. Begin pulling the groups of 3 and CCing them as you see fit.

Halazzi:

Assign your paladin to MT Halazzi and the druid to tank the add that spawns. Have all dps make the macro /tar cor and to watch Halazzi's cast bar to see when he throws down a corrupt lighting totem. If you have 4 minutes left on your timer at this point you are in good shape. Have everyone spread out when the boss is pulled. At every 25% he spawns a Lynx and have the druid tank it.


Misc tips:

having your paladin grab a few peices of the Badge FR gear for tanking adds on Dragon hawk makes healing him trivial. he will only pick up a few debuffs and will resist alot of the fire damage.

Don't wait for caster dps to finish drinking to pull.

Keep it on group loot

Don't loot the prisoners until after you have finished running the timed event, they will be there.

you don't need to be in a bunch of T6 gear to get a successful bear mount run. The first time I did a bear run, no one had gear from hyjal/BT.
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Postby sbeacher » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:37 am

3 things:

1. No mention of using soothe beast on the pack of 2 normal bears in order to skip.

2. Concerning dragonhawks, it is way better to put the frost trap not ON the bridge but slightly behind it (closer to the boss) so that way your consecrate and the area of the ice trap are one in the same. If you put it on the bridge the trap area will slow the hawks BEFORE they get to your consecrate (since you can't wait on the bridge or you risk getting ported to the boss when he starts tossing the eggs) and also its way easier for the hawks to get past you and destroy your warlock/mage/healer.

I usually tell the locks/mages not to aoe until I call it out (usually when 3/4 of them are hatched) otherwise their seeds will go off before you have full aggro on the newest hatched dragonhawks.

Also have to remember to kill the 1st hatcher after he hatches all the eggs on one side or he will run to the other side and start hatching the other side (which usually seems to happen right as the 2nd fire eggs are being thrown. This timing sucks)

And we usually slow up on DPS if the boss is getting too close to 30% because having him hatch all the firehawks at once can be overwhelming, especially if you aren't ready for it.

3. Instead of killing the beast master with the 2 crocs pat have the shaman cast water walking on everyone while they are hopping through the huts (or bring elixirs of water walking) and you can just skip the pat.
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Postby Jtree » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:00 am

sbeacher wrote:3 things:

1. No mention of using soothe beast on the pack of 2 normal bears in order to skip.


I love doing this, but have seen it fail semi-often when done by ferals and trees. Sooth beast needs spell hit behind it to make sure it works.


sbeacher wrote:2. Concerning dragonhawks, it is way better to put the frost trap not ON the bridge but slightly behind it (closer to the boss) so that way your consecrate and the area of the ice trap are one in the same. If you put it on the bridge the trap area will slow the hawks BEFORE they get to your consecrate (since you can't wait on the bridge or you risk getting ported to the boss when he starts tossing the eggs) and also its way easier for the hawks to get past you and destroy your warlock/mage/healer.

I usually tell the locks/mages not to aoe until I call it out (usually when 3/4 of them are hatched) otherwise their seeds will go off before you have full aggro on the newest hatched dragonhawks.

Also have to remember to kill the 1st hatcher after he hatches all the eggs on one side or he will run to the other side and start hatching the other side (which usually seems to happen right as the 2nd fire eggs are being thrown. This timing sucks)

And we usually slow up on DPS if the boss is getting too close to 30% because having him hatch all the firehawks at once can be overwhelming, especially if you aren't ready for it.


I find it easiest to go all the way into the nest and stand there dropping consecration. It means I hit the birds right off the bat, and have no lead time of healer aggro to overcome. I let the boss teleport me to the center. There's no threat loss on the birds, and they'll all zero in on me. Without any slowing effects on them, I get enough time to find a safe spot between bombs before they're back on me, and often get the AoE going before the bombs have detonated.

Jan'alai hatches the remaining eggs when he hits 35% health. While my group always wants to hold off on DPS to make sure that happens after a bomb phase, it never seems to work out. However, with all twenty eggs popping at once, healer aggro is divided to nil and it's easy to pick them up simply by dropping consecration in front of the bridge. Let a round of consecration go, then call for AoE.


Incidentally, I drop Seal of Wisdom on the boss right after the other tank pulls, to help the DPS out. I keep it up as much as possible between hatchling phases.
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Postby Maat » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:09 pm

I find non-retards a better way of composing bear run ZAs over any specific jobs. Of course, my pull/boss strategy varies slightly depending on what jobs we do have.

MT: usually myself or my protadin friend
OT: feral drood (preferred) > fury warrior > prot warrior
Healers: usually 2, two different types work best (double druid was a bit scary, double priest and double shaman didn't work too well. double paladin would probably be extremely difficult)

Eagle trash, I am wary of pulling more than the first pair initially, as healers haven't gotten time to set up, and grabbing all four at once tends to be too much initial damage for them to heal safely.

Dragonhawk trash, when my HoJ is up, I'll just mount, ride into the pack and hammer the scout. I tend to have to yell at my shamans to pick up their totems.

Jan'alai, if I have a shaman or hunter, I tell them to drop a frost trap or earthbind at the entrance to the bridge (after the remaining hatcher runs through), and just tank the birds there (judge the first hawk, taunt the next wave, etc., the rest of the ways will have weak-ass healer aggro so consecrate is more than enough to grab them). Otherwise I just tank them on the platform, but I tend to lose a few to healer aggro (they move pretty fast to click reliably) I also wear about 200FR worth of gear (270FR with aura). I usually tell my group to let that hatcher go and hatch the other side (dragging the first group with me) but usually it dies in the aoe mess.

Lynx trash, usually just skip the croc pat as some clothie inevitably gets marked, bop is down, etc. Casting water walk is pretty inconvenient, but the elixirs are great. Swimming's not a big deal though, I just water walk myself, and when I see a healer in range I pull the stealthed lynxes to the wall. Just make sure everyone is up against that wall so as not to aggro the pat just skipped.
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Postby Comma » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:43 pm

Ideally, I'd like this raid composition instead.

G1
Feral druid
Enh shaman
BM hunter
BM hunter
BM hunter

G2
Prot pally
PoH priest
Resto shaman/Holy pally
Destro warlock
Shadow priest/Moonkin druid/Destro warlock

- Enh shaman do Grace of Air totem.
- PoH priest + Resto shaman, strong AE heal, priest more focus on tanks.
- PoH priest + Holy pally, Holy pally more focus on tanks.
- Resto shaman's wrath of air is huge TPS buff for pally tank, also buffs this caster group's DPS and +heal.
- Holy pally, 2nd pally buff, more dps for G1 and more mana regen for G2.
- Destro lock, major AE, healthstone, best caster DPS.
- Shadow priest, mana regen, shackle on Hex, frees PoH priest.
- Moonkin, root, aura buff for caster group, sleep dragon on Hex, frees PoH priest, and one more br.
- 2nd Destro warlock, more DPS and more AE, but PoH priest would have to do a shackle on Hex while healing, unless you are killing 3 adds. Having 2 Destro warlock also means you can have 2 curse up for bosses, element and reclessness.

Why no rogue or dps warrior?
BM hunter deals more overall dmg here, less melee more safety and flexibility. If Hex heals, enh shaman can shock, a hunter can keep aimed shot debuff. More hunters, more MDs, more AE on trash.

Why no mage?
Flamecasters - we can have a priest to MC one and let other mobs kill it, then have a pally BoP the priest. If MC resisted, BoP priest and kill them fast. If there's only one flamecaster, just kill it fast.
Poly on Hex - we always have 2 cc in this raid already.
Water and int buff - Have an lv70 alt/friend mage do water and int buff before we start.

Note:
- The more heroism the better, this raid has 2 heroism, 1 for each group.
- BM hunter's Ferocious Inspration stacks, so having 3 BM hunters in group 1 means, G1 would get 9% dmg buff from FI x 3.
- Random hunters can cause lots of problems (pet control, MD, FD bug), need real good ones.

After all, good players are limited, its more important to have 10 solid members than having the best raid composition.

My 2 cents. :)
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Postby Comma » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:51 pm

If we swap out a BM hunter, I'd take a fury warrior, sunder armor is too tasty as a physical dmg buff.
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Postby Tirion » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:07 pm

Comma wrote:If we swap out a BM hunter, I'd take a fury warrior, sunder armor is too tasty as a physical dmg buff.


you should see the DPS that a stacked group of casters can put out, especially if it's an arcane mage w/ 2p T5. they pull 1600 on the fight in non-t6 gear.

I would never take 3 hunters in a raid in a 10 man. you loose way to many buffs from other classes, and their dps doesn't make up for it unless they out gear every other dps option.
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Postby ShaiHulud » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:50 am

Tirion wrote:
Comma wrote:If we swap out a BM hunter, I'd take a fury warrior, sunder armor is too tasty as a physical dmg buff.


you should see the DPS that a stacked group of casters can put out, especially if it's an arcane mage w/ 2p T5. they pull 1600 on the fight in non-t6 gear.

I would never take 3 hunters in a raid in a 10 man. you loose way to many buffs from other classes, and their dps doesn't make up for it unless they out gear every other dps option.


The 3 hunters give a stacking 3% dmg bonus. So thats 9% increased dmg to all dmg done for their group. You'd be suprised to see what a hunter stacked DPS group could pull. Especially when you see BM hunters doing stand alone 1200 dps in t5 gear with no group buffs.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:42 am

yeah the BM's 3% buff is very nice indeed. a third hunter is about as useful as a rogue, does same dps but at range.

(Fun: 4 hunters and a feral druid in the same group. qq 1600 tps)
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Postby Comma » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:10 pm

Tirion wrote:Group comp is:

G1
Rogue
Ench shaman
Hunter
Feral druid
Prot pally


Just realised, there are 4 players 1 pet in melee range, so risky. There are 5 out of 6 bosses are somewhat anti-melee.

About BM hunters vs caster:
Sure, you can take groups like 2 physical dps 1 prot pally 2 healers in group 1, casters in group 2, still doable, however take a closer look:

- Only warlock out of 5 caster classes has threat reduction skill besides passive talented ones.
- Casters are 99% mana dependant.
- Long casting spells for fire/frost mage and warlock, which means slower single target dps for trash. Besides, fire or frost mage and warlock gotta cast a few spells untill their buff procs then release true power.

- Hunters can use Aspect of Viper for trash mobs and keep dps non-stop for a much longer time.
- Hunters have pets, so when buffed up, there are 2 units got buffed, hence even more dps buff for hunters.
- If I recall correctly, hunter pets dont get flameshock/chain lightening from Lynx, for other fights, their pets have AE dmg avoidance.

- On the other hand, what happens if you keep caster dps and healers in one group? Healers get shadow priest's mana regen, and Moonkin aura, caster DPS gets heroism and totems from resto shaman, gets concentration aura from paladin, so they buff each other. What happens if you swap healers into melee group? Neither of them gets any good buff from anyone, besides totems and heroism.

But, to be honest, I wouldnt take any pug hunter, including some hunter guildies with average skills, real skilled hunter is my favourite DPS, but there are too many dumb ones.

Free tip:
If I see dead pet on ZJ, inexperienced/bad hunter. A good hunter dismisses pet around 65% (bear phase ending) before 60% (eagle phase begins), call it back when below 40% (dragonhawk phase begins).

Just from my point of view.
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Postby Comma » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:27 pm

Tirion wrote:you should see the DPS that a stacked group of casters can put out, especially if it's an arcane mage w/ 2p T5. they pull 1600 on the fight in non-t6 gear.

1600 dps for how long? I wouldnt take arcane mages for ZA, too much mana consuming.

Tirion wrote:I would never take 3 hunters in a raid in a 10 man. you loose way to many buffs from other classes, and their dps doesn't make up for it unless they out gear every other dps option.

What buffs do we lose exactly? BM Hunter is the best DPS class apperently. I think you just met too many bad ones. :)
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Postby Arquine » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:26 pm

Free tip:
If I see dead pet on ZJ, inexperienced/bad hunter. A good hunter dismisses pet around 65% (bear phase ending) before 60% (eagle phase begins), call it back when below 40% (dragonhawk phase begins).

Just from my point of view.


or, a smart hunter will adjust his macro and not use "kill command", keep his pet for the entire phase 3 and it sitll won't die.
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Postby Comma » Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:55 pm

Arquine wrote:
Free tip:
If I see dead pet on ZJ, inexperienced/bad hunter. A good hunter dismisses pet around 65% (bear phase ending) before 60% (eagle phase begins), call it back when below 40% (dragonhawk phase begins).

Just from my point of view.


or, a smart hunter will adjust his macro and not use "kill command", keep his pet for the entire phase 3 and it sitll won't die.

Doubt it though. Hunter pet doesnt get knocked back when those lightening tornados hit them, so pet get killed almost instantly when hitted. Either the hunter gets real lucky, or he has to move more often to make sure his pet doesnt get hit.
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Postby Tirion » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:21 pm

Comma wrote:
Tirion wrote:you should see the DPS that a stacked group of casters can put out, especially if it's an arcane mage w/ 2p T5. they pull 1600 on the fight in non-t6 gear.

1600 dps for how long? I wouldnt take arcane mages for ZA, too much mana consuming.

Tirion wrote:I would never take 3 hunters in a raid in a 10 man. you loose way to many buffs from other classes, and their dps doesn't make up for it unless they out gear every other dps option.

What buffs do we lose exactly? BM Hunter is the best DPS class apperently. I think you just met too many bad ones. :)



with my t5 arcane mage (Dannamoth) I pulled 1850 on nalorakk, that was w/o heroism and with a resto shaman and SP.

I averaged 1500 dps the whole entire run.

Bad arcane mages are bad. good ones that know how to rotate consumables are good.
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Postby Jtree » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:44 pm

Comma wrote:- Only warlock out of 5 caster classes has threat reduction skill besides passive talented ones.
- Casters are 99% mana dependant.
- Long casting spells for fire/frost mage and warlock, which means slower single target dps for trash. Besides, fire or frost mage and warlock gotta cast a few spells untill their buff procs then release true power.


Couple counter-points in casters' favor:

- Warlocks do have the threat dump, but they seem to need it the worst. Every caster class has some survival tools if they pull aggro. Of course, the most significant is discipline with their DPS in the first place.

- All caster classes have some kind of mana restore option to keep themselves sustainable during long drives through trash. Especially Warlocks.

- Mages and locks (and boomkins and enh shammys) bring AoE to trash pulls. There are no single mob pulls in ZA trash (other than the scouts), so they can make real short work on things. (And on scouts, all you need is coordinated firing on all the ranged types.)




My ZA group has finally reached my "Ideal Class Alignment", though truthfully I might swap a couple specs given the chance.

One of every class, plus another pally:

Group 1:
Tankadin - me
Healadin
Resto Shaman
Mage
SPriest

Group 2:
Feral Druid (bear or cat, as needed)
Arms Warrior
Rogue
Hunter
Warlock (doesn't need damage or DPS buffs from group to get uber-DPS)


Got our first bear four runs ago, and they've dropped every run since. I won the latest one. :)
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