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Squeezing the last drop...

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Squeezing the last drop...

Postby Dunkan » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:53 pm

Hello

I am looking at the performance of a rogue in the raids I lead. I think that he could raise his dps a fair bit. I personally think he is a 100-200 dps off the mark with his gear/build.

This is the tail end of kara/ZA run.

http://wowwebstats.com/seyoft2bsvo31

Thoughts on his performance?
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Postby Origon » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:18 pm

Off the top of my head, i notice the enh shaman was using windfury totem yet the rogue has no windfury attack procs due to both poisons being on
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Postby Redmicrowave » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:21 pm

Origon wrote:Off the top of my head, i notice the enh shaman was using windfury totem yet the rogue has no windfury attack procs due to both poisons being on


Posion's and Windfury Don't stack?
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Postby Lore » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:22 pm

Redmicrowave wrote:
Origon wrote:Off the top of my head, i notice the enh shaman was using windfury totem yet the rogue has no windfury attack procs due to both poisons being on


Posion's and Windfury Don't stack?


Nope. You only put a poison on your offhand if you're getting windfury.
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Postby Dunkan » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:42 pm

So one blade with poison, one without?

Having two poisons does help in that he doubles their effect tho, correct?
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Postby Origon » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:01 pm

from what i know about rogues, windfury > poison, they can keep their offhand poison on though
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Postby ulushnar » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:09 pm

Depends on spec I believe. My understanding is sword/mace combat rogues get more from WF, but dagger rogues go more for poisons.
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Postby Origon » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:17 pm

Also, shouldn't slice&dice be up almost all of the time for a rogue? especially combat? or am i remembering that wrong. assuming he always did a 5point slice & dice, he had 420 seconds uptime, out of 2228 seconds in combat
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Postby caboom » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:53 am

vanish + trinketz/potz/etc. = serious business
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Postby Pizbit » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:56 am

Poison on off hand only unless Mutilate.
MH should get WF from totem.

SnD up *always* regardless of spec.
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Postby Origon » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:01 am

TBH i'm not exactly certain how to read rogue WWS due to it not showing how many points went into each use of SND / Eviscerate / other finishers, but is it just me or were his finishers simply not used often enough overall?
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Re: Squeezing the last drop...

Postby Holyfuri » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:25 am

Dunkan wrote:Hello

I am looking at the performance of a rogue in the raids I lead. I think that he could raise his dps a fair bit. I personally think he is a 100-200 dps off the mark with his gear/build.

This is the tail end of kara/ZA run.

http://wowwebstats.com/seyoft2bsvo31

Thoughts on his performance?


My rogue was my main through T5 content, so I'll take a look at it...

First thing, he looks like a daggers build, because he's using backstab.

1. He shouldn't be using sinister strike AT ALL with a daggers build. It does horrible damage compared to backstab. Yet on nightbane (where he's behind him the whole time) he used it 22 times....

2. Both poisons up with a shaman in the raid = bad. Deadly poison off hand nothing on MH in that case.

3. Shiv is worthless, the deadly poison will stay max stacked as long as you have good hit rating, 200-250 is good for starting and working through kara. He used shiv 17 times on nightbane....

4. Rupture only ticked 19 times on the nightbane fight. That is an 8.5 minute fight, and rupture should be up 100% of the time. It obviously wasn't here.

5. He only gained the slice and dice buff 4 times on that same 8.5 minute fight. It lasts 20 seconds, meaning it should refresh itself 5 times per minute.

6. He used Envenom more than he should. The only time envenom is useful is when that blow will kill the mob. It is a waste of combo points. The only build you can sneak it in on is a mutilate build, which he is not.

7. He used Eviscerate (a finisher) 22 times, same amount as he used sinsiter strike. This is odd, as there is no room in a combat dagger build for this finisher. It looks as though he as just haphazardly trying to use every ability he has to be honest...

This guy needs to check out the elitist jerks thread for rogues very badly. There is also a raiding rogue compendium, links should be available on the WoW rogue forums. I am at work so don't have the sites bookmarked here.

Slice and dice should be up 100% of the time.
Rupture should be up 100% of the time.

He should be running with a 2s/5r rotation, which means this:

Backstab (1pt)
Backstab (2pts)
S&D (finisher)
Backstab (1pt)
Backstab (2pts)
Backstab (2pts)
Backstab (4pts)
Backstab (5 pts)
Rupture (finisher)
REPEAT.

Now obviously if his talents proc and give him extra combo points he doesn't need as many backstabs, but in an unlucky non-proc scenario that is the rotation he needs. It needs to be taht and not deviate from it. This will keep S&D and rupture up 100% of the time.


Edit: added point 7.

Edit2: Just looked at his spec. Tell him to get out of deflection, that talent is worthless, unless he plans on tanking, lol. Fill out Ruthlessness and Lethality. Definetely. No reason to not have those talents filled out. They are HUGE.

Looked at his gear too. It's not bad overall. He should be doing WAY more dps than that. My rogue does 800-900 dps in kara when I'm lolshadowstep specced. he does need a fast speed dagger for his OH though. To be honest if you guys are in kara and ZA, I would recommend for him to respec mutilate. It will take advantage of two slow daggers.
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Postby DanimalEQ » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:23 am

Hmmm, I can't see the WWS from here for some reason, however, just another note about SnD and Rupture uptime.

WWS only tracks the gains of these buffs. Thus, if it is refreshed before the buff / debuff falls off, it won't count the gain.

Unfortunately, this doesn't let you know the total uptime of the buff, just the number of times it drops.

Rupture dropping could be a result of not being able to overwrite a trinketed rupture.

But yes. Definately send them to do their homework on EJ or Roguespot, as it does sound like they tried to do as much wrong as possible :)
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