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Why take a Tankadin over a Protection Warrior?

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Postby Brute » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:10 am

Paladins have less base health than warriors, though at ~T5 our superior scaling of stamina lets us catch up, and then possibly pass them depending on gemming choices later.

Paladins have similar avoidance, as this is very much dependent on gear. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a Paladin and a Warrior in the same gear will have a negligible difference in avoidance.

I have never, ever had a problem with single target threat in heroics or content up to T5. I hold VR for most of the fight. I don't know where the myth arose that warriors have superior threat to Paladins.

Paladins do have fairly crappy "oh shit" buttons. We can heal to full with Lay on Hands, or throw that heal to anyone that equals our health (notice, we can give it to the warrior tank). Meanwhile, warriors get Shield Wall. A warrior using Shield Wall and having a imp. LoH buff on him will take very, very little damage.

Nearly everything we use to compensate for not having abilities like
Last Stand (Nightmare Seed)
Shield Wall (Ironshield Potion)
Berserker Rage (Medallion of the Alliance, Divine Shield+/cancelaura (5 min CD), requires tricky cooldown management to keep fear "immunity")
Defensive Stance (Imp. RF, 4% less)
they can also use to gain an extra edge.

Now, the thing I'd like to point out is that these abilities are only used when things are going bad. So a Warrior may be able to save a fight in a way that a Paladin could not, but it seems like most of the time, the extra mitigation that is needed to save a fight (like in Gruul's when he gets too big) doesn't last long enough anyway. And most wipes I've seen were either caused by

A) The tank taking a damage spike (which warriors are more prone to since Shield Block only has 2 charges) or
B) The DPS being stupid and getting killed, either causing enrage timers to expire (and no amount of mitigation will save you then) or healers to go OOM from the fight taking too long
C) Healers getting killed and the remaining healers going OOM.

So really the only ability they have that they have that I would give a nut for is Berserker Rage, and we have ways to work around that.
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Postby Frickit » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:23 am

you forgot to mention that ardent defender is a pretty good shieldwall. and ya warriors have oh shit buttons...we have, well...who needs an oh shit button?
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Postby Uthadanin » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:27 am

Brute, I just wanna make one tiny correction. A paladin can catch up to a warrior tanks health pool in late t4 and some badge gear. (maybe not unubuffed but I sit within 300 health of our warrior MT and could reach his health with a couple gem swaps.
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Postby JUSTISE » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:28 am

what i'd like to see more is pally tanks given better roles @ tanking other than "now put on yer healing gear n heal cuz the warrior is goin to MT" cuz most warriors + feral druids i've tanked w/, I did equal or a better job at tanking.

It's true some fights may not be beneficial for us to tank (Maiden for example) because of the spell interrupts every time she does her consecrate thing, which is almost every second. Bad for our TPS but still tankable. Warriors/Druids don't really get affected I suppose so it would be preferred they do that fight. Most everything else I've tanked, there was little to no problem.

Even in TK, heading to Solarian, the pulls with a bunch of humanoids. I'm not really sure why our guild leader kept tellin the other tanks to pull a mob off of me. I clearly can tank all at once, and would be more beneficial because the aoe could just blow them all up. Stuff like that annoys me, people underestimating the prot pallys.
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Postby anthony » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:37 am

hmm, why take a tankadin over a warrrior is just like saying which would you rather eat, pie or cake it depends on the situation (what you fancy eating atm).

cake/pie/muffins/anythingyoulike= pala
mouldy stuff=warrior

cake/pie/muffins/anythingyoulike can taste so much better than mouldstuff in certain conditions especially when eaten with loads of people whereas mouldystuff never tastes better when eaten alone or with anyone/thing as they usually are not large enough to share and so they are greedy and not filling/will give you food poisoning
what i just wrote is most probably rubbish unless you understand it
Last edited by anthony on Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why take a Tankadin over a Protection Warrior?

Postby Tradyk » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:28 am

Ariosto wrote:So why would I want a Paladin for my main tank over a Warrior?


Because Warriors smell.

Bad.
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Postby Frickit » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:06 am

anthony wrote:hmm, why take a tankadin over a warrrior is just like saying which would you rather eat, pie or cake it depends on the situation (what you fancy eating atm).

cake= pala
pie=warrior

cake can taste so much better than pie in certain conditions especially when eaten with loads of people whereas pie tastes better when eaten alone as they usually are not large enough to share and so they are greedy.
what i just wrote is most probably rubbish unless you understand it


i see more as a pally tank being like buffet of cakes, pies and icecream.
warrior is a stale cookie.
druid is meatloaf.
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Postby Elsie » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:08 am

cake= pala
pie=warrior

I am deeply offended and will petition the admins to ban you for this blatant lie.

Paladins are much more akin to the superior pie than cake can ever be. At best, warriors are cheesecake. That is, they want to be pie, but they're still considered cake because the other pies don't like it.

...you bring a paladin for a diverse toolset among your tanks.
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Postby anthony » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:11 am

Elsie wrote:
cake= pala
pie=warrior

I am deeply offended and will petition the admins to ban you for this blatant lie.

Paladins are much more akin to the superior pie than cake can ever be. At best, warriors are cheesecake. That is, they want to be pie, but they're still considered cake because the other pies don't like it.

...you bring a paladin for a diverse toolset among your tanks.

soz but i dont like pie and so used that, will rewrite it to match everyones likes :)
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Postby Elsie » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:28 am

soz but i dont like pie and so used that, will rewrite it to match everyones likes

Your change is acceptable, but you remain under suspicion for not liking pie like a normal paladin would.
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Postby JUSTISE » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:09 pm

From what I see, I know for a fact that a Prot Pally can tank Illidan just the same as a Prot warrior can. This is in no means bringing up druids into the argument, simply Prot Pallys vs Warriors.

So basically speaking, if a Prot pally can tank Illidan just as well as a Prot warrior, and add on the fact that we are amazing at keeping people safe when there are multiple mobs, would that not make my case clear that prot pallys > warriors?
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Postby Elsie » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:48 pm

Against dual wielding demons that can crush and aoe fights, yes.

It isn't generally the tank's job to keep everyone safe. They're supposed to keep themselves safe. The tank's job is keeping himself alive, the boss positioned correctly, and putting out good threat.
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Postby Tyaera » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:59 pm

Brute wrote:I don't know where the myth arose that warriors have superior threat to Paladins.



Because in late t6 and Sunwell, they do.
better to tank in hell than DPS in heaven
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Postby Elsie » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:02 pm

Warriors don't have more TPS in sunwell. Except possibly on kalecgos.
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Postby Ariosto » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:31 am

Frickit wrote:
anthony wrote:hmm, why take a tankadin over a warrrior is just like saying which would you rather eat, pie or cake it depends on the situation (what you fancy eating atm).

cake= pala
pie=warrior

cake can taste so much better than pie in certain conditions especially when eaten with loads of people whereas pie tastes better when eaten alone as they usually are not large enough to share and so they are greedy.
what i just wrote is most probably rubbish unless you understand it


i see more as a pally tank being like buffet of cakes, pies and icecream.
warrior is a stale cookie.
druid is meatloaf.


I laughed out loud irl when I read this about the druid. :D
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