On Heroic vs regular level 80 loot

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On Heroic vs regular level 80 loot

Postby crabcrouton » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:46 am

So mmo-champion has a few items of note that were found on the beta. Interestingly enough is the new heroic dungeon blues.

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/heroicnexus_05.jpg heroic dungeon cape

Compare to http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/cotstrath_05.jpg regular level 80 dungeon cape

It's not so easily discernable but it does look like Heroic blues have a higher item budget, possibly due to a higher item level. Take a look at:

Leeka's Shield from regular Strat http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/cotstrath_13.jpg

versus http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/heroicnexus_04.jpg

See the difference in armor value and block value? Also as a minor point, I'm glad Shield Block Rating is still alive and kicking. There's still hope for a high block set.
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Postby Sharlos » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:02 am

well it *is* a heroic. A harder instance implies better loot.
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Postby crabcrouton » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:06 am

Sharlos wrote:well it *is* a heroic. A harder instance implies better loot.

That's not how it works on live. All level 70 regular instances drop item level 115 blues. All heroics also drop level 115 blues.

MgT heroic doesn't even drop blues so it's no exception to the rule.
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Postby Andox » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:25 am

Nice, the heroic cape have craptons of more Defense. Otherwise, I think that the overall defenserating on lvl 80 normal blues are fairly low. The shoulders from CoT for example, like 26 defense. http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... ath_22.jpg
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Postby cougarr » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:39 am

There was an interview a while back where they said they wanted to do this for WoLK. They want two different ilevels of loot for heroics and regular.
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Postby crabcrouton » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:45 am

Yeah... I remember now. There was that interview where they said they learned a lot about Heroic dungeon drops.

What they never cleared out for me was whether they would continue the current system and give more item levels to the heroic blues, or go the route of MgT where the heroic version drops epics exclusively.
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Postby Elsie » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:05 pm

I'd hate for things to go the MgT route. Epics being rougher to obtain is always nice. You feel more progression from greens to blues to purples. They would have to start infringing on orange's prestige and make the new orange red.

Yes, I'm saying something as trivial as color matters to me. There's a vibe that goes past just item level and it's only really displayable via graphics and fluff detail.
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Postby aranil » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:33 pm

I have to say I like this new path over the one they took in TBC. All heroics having better loot then the regulars, awesome! I mean, what is the point of rolling into, say Heroic Slabs over Normal? More challenging fight, chance for some Eh epic gems, and one sub par epic off the last boss.
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Postby moduspwnens » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:36 pm

Elsie wrote:I'd hate for things to go the MgT route. Epics being rougher to obtain is always nice. You feel more progression from greens to blues to purples. They would have to start infringing on orange's prestige and make the new orange red.

Yes, I'm saying something as trivial as color matters to me. There's a vibe that goes past just item level and it's only really displayable via graphics and fluff detail.


I agree with this. Karazhan gear should have been blue, and Naxx10 gear probably should be, too. Really, anything puggable should be blue. If you can pull a boss without saying a word to anyone, or maybe only one sentence (i.e., Kill the gnomes, Kill the water tanks), it should be blue. The fact that Illidan and Kil'jaeden drop the same color of loot as the first boss of Heroic MgT or the last boss of any heroic should bother anyone. It just perpetuates the "I pay $15/mo, I want the same thing people who actually commit some time to this game to have."

It goes both ways, though. People say, "WTF, why does color matter to you?" Well, why does color matter to YOU? My way is better, imo.

Ugh, did I just start a casual vs. hardcore thing? Nvm.
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Postby Modal » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:40 pm

I think they should just give tier pants a bigger bulge the first 10 times they drop on your server and after that "nerf" them. Problem solved.
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Postby Zalaria » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:45 pm

moduspwnens wrote:
Elsie wrote:I'd hate for things to go the MgT route. Epics being rougher to obtain is always nice. You feel more progression from greens to blues to purples. They would have to start infringing on orange's prestige and make the new orange red.

Yes, I'm saying something as trivial as color matters to me. There's a vibe that goes past just item level and it's only really displayable via graphics and fluff detail.


I agree with this. Karazhan gear should have been blue, and Naxx10 gear probably should be, too. Really, anything puggable should be blue. If you can pull a boss without saying a word to anyone, or maybe only one sentence (i.e., Kill the gnomes, Kill the water tanks), it should be blue. The fact that Illidan and Kil'jaeden drop the same color of loot as the first boss of Heroic MgT or the last boss of any heroic should bother anyone. It just perpetuates the "I pay $15/mo, I want the same thing people who actually commit some time to this game to have."

It goes both ways, though. People say, "WTF, why does color matter to you?" Well, why does color matter to YOU? My way is better, imo.

Ugh, did I just start a casual vs. hardcore thing? Nvm.


I agree with you. I think what they did with ZG was a good balance, where the first bosses dropped really good blues and the harder last bosses dropped epics. You had to work for the epic gear, instead of just AFKing in a battleground or losing 10 games a week.

Even Tier 1 was a challenge at the time, people didn't know how to raid so even those "easy" tank-and-spank fights were a challenge, and you had to earn the epics.

I guess I just miss the feel of having earned the purple instead of having it handed to me.
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Postby Zumor » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:15 pm

jeah, the feeling back then in Molten Core getting the first epic from a 40raid was realy epic, I miss that as well, but how should they fix it, making everyone wear realy good blue things and make the epic epic again?
what happens in the second raidinstance after naxx? "rare epics"? and after that?
that thing is in every game a problem
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Postby Vanifae » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:29 pm

It's a game; people deserve to be rewarded, this isn't a competition unless you make it so. At the end of the day blue or purple it is a reward for your time spent. It makes me sad when I see posts like this crying about how someone got something easy, who cares in no way should it ruin "your" experience with the game and if it does then you have issues far larger then the game.

It's nice to be first but at the end of the day people need some kind of carrot to keep them going.
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Postby Klimpen » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:04 pm

moduspwnens wrote:Really, anything puggable should be blue. If you can pull a boss without saying a word to anyone, or maybe only one sentence (i.e., Kill the gnomes, Kill the water tanks), it should be blue.


*cough*Hyjal*cough*
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Postby Karock » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:59 pm

Vanifae wrote:It's a game; people deserve to be rewarded, this isn't a competition unless you make it so. At the end of the day blue or purple it is a reward for your time spent. It makes me sad when I see posts like this crying about how someone got something easy, who cares in no way should it ruin "your" experience with the game and if it does then you have issues far larger then the game.

It's nice to be first but at the end of the day people need some kind of carrot to keep them going.


This.

Get over it, other people can work toward gear without raiding.

EDIT: And to the people who want to be special because of the color of your gear, too bad. Epic items have a larger item budget for their item level so there is a very big leap between epic and superior gear levels for item budget.

All this "im bettar then u" nonsense makes me sick and I'm VERY glad that Blizzard no longer considers that you want to feel better than anyone a valid factor in game design.

EDIT2:
Even Tier 1 was a challenge at the time, people didn't know how to raid so even those "easy" tank-and-spank fights were a challenge, and you had to earn the epics.


The only issue with Molten Core was finding 40 people who would show up and maintaining a 40 person raid to kill the bosses. Also in no way did all 40 people "earn" their epics. 40 man raiding was about ~20-25 people doing their job and ~15 people slacking off collecting their free epics (at least until AQ - then some people had to put forth some minimal effort on a few bosses).

Even now most raiding is hardly a difficult process. It's more about trying to find 25 people who will pay enough attention to stay out of fire than anything else. I can't speak to sunwell though and I'm sure it requires all 25 people to be excellent and on the ball.
Last edited by Karock on Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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