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Problems Tanking Brutallus

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Problems Tanking Brutallus

Postby Dynaeus » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:07 pm

So, here's a WWS of a full night on Brut: http://wowwebstats.com/6jr5xqa63aidw
Here's my armory link: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &n=Dynaeus
I swap in Praetorian's Legguards with 3x +15 stam gems and the epic stam armor kit. I also use Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch instead of my Darkmoon card.

I just kept dying last night. On stomps, I used Nightmare Seeds or my Pocket Watch and would chuck either Wail of the Banshee or Bag of Marbles.

Is it simply gear? My bracers, neck, and shield are all fail.
or is the error between the keyboard and my chair?
or is is the RNG to blame? (random number generator)
or is it the healers?

...or is this normal?

-Dyna
Last edited by Dynaeus on Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mevy » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:48 pm

Most deaths are healerfault, be it the grp healer or tankhealer. Some times seems u only got 1 healer on u while tanking some times well u got 2.
Over all i would say ur Tankhealers need to step up 1 heal every 3-4s seems bit low while tanking the Airplane.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:56 pm

From just a armory look, i can tell that the main problem is low avoidance.

Your deaths:
1) 4 non avoided hits in 1 second
2) only 1 heals for 5 seconds
3) other tank's death
4) 5 non avoided hits in 3 seconds
5) roflstomped
6) only 1 avoided hit in 6 seconds, got hit by 6 attacks
7) 4 non avoided hits in 1 second

I couldn't be arsed checking the rest, as you can see it's clearly a avoidance issue.

No tank can survive 4 hits in a row.
(there's this thing, you got only 2 healers on you, you should have 3)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Dynaeus » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:42 pm

*sighs* Thanks, you two. Looks like more BT for me.

-Dyna
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Postby Maelstrom » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:15 pm

I do love that your sig has you with a Bulwark when you admit in the original post you don't have one yet. :)
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Postby Dynaeus » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:23 pm

Maelstrom wrote:I do love that your sig has you with a Bulwark when you admit in the original post you don't have one yet. :)

And if you click the armory, it shows I don't have one, either.

The sig is a pic of what I hope Dyna will look like...someday :(.

-Dyna
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Postby Worldie » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:24 pm

Actually, T6 legs are crap however, you should not use em unless you are forced to for the set bonus :P
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Dynaeus » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:46 pm

Worldie wrote:Actually, T6 legs are crap however, you should not use em unless you are forced to for the set bonus :P

I wear them mostly in cities, yay matchin'! I have the badge legs!

Here's for hopin' on lucky Kal drops, btw!

-Dyna
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Postby Fangwui » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:09 pm

priests for inspiration, ironshields and scrolls of protection can make a world of difference. try getting the warlock doing CoR to take it off during a stomp as well.
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Postby Worldie » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:19 pm

If demo shout and screech are kept up fine, the presence of CoR isnt important
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Thark » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:20 pm

We'd killed Brutallus about 10 times before I tanked him the first time. The first night was not fun. I replaced the Druid in Warrior/Druid, and the healers quickly complained. Their reasoning made no sense, but they liked to claim that not having a druid would eat through their mana too fast. After just 1 attempt I replaced myself.

The next week, I took a while to learn it. I found a few things that may help you, depending on what your problem is. I made a Taunt macro, because one attempt I taunted off the burn target. Simple mistake. It just taunts off my focus target. Also, I use Pitbull, and made the other MT my focus. This way I can more easily see the Stomp and Slash debuffs, and time my taunt. Rather than watch how many debuffs he has, I switched to watching my own, and taunting after they wear off of me. Just watch and see if Stomp is anytime soon, and if so taunt after the stomp. We have the 2nd MT taunt after the 2nd slash/first stomp. This way if you use 2 avoidance trinkets you can have one up for every stomp you take. Those were just things I learned after I wiped the raid - maybe they'll help you.

How are you dying? If you're dying at transitions, make sure your healers can transition well. Call out before you taunt. If you're dying during stomps, I'd recommend more avoidance (especially trinkets like the Tortoise and Pocketwatch). If you're just dying while tanking, that's either bad luck, gear issues, or bad healing. Your gear doesn't seem that bad that I'd think you should have a gear issue. How many MT healers do you run? We run 3/4. Three when they are well geared experienced players, and 4 if we have a random tank death or newer healers in.
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Postby Dynaeus » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:14 pm

I think there were three healers on me, Thark. The two nights we spent on Brut were the first two times we had seen the guy. They just recruited a Druid in like a million piece T6 who's tanked thru M'uru. So, I got replaced on Brut. Oh well, hopefully I can fix my gear holes over the next few weeks and get in on Brut. I know I'll be back in for Fel, so I'm guess I'm feeling ok about it.
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Postby Thark » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:24 am

For learning, our healers seemed to prefer a druid tank. The armor/HP was more forgiving. We also used 8 healers. We have 2 druids heal burns. We have a shaman on each side responsible for raid healing. They chain heals off of the current tank. We then have the others exclusively heal the MT. If you're just learning it, perhaps using 8 healers will help you get to enrage, and then you can either push your DPS or switch to 7.

I'm the raid leader. I would usually step out for Brutallus. I have recently rerolled from a hunter, so originally I'd just change characters. Now I either tank or step out. As I mentioned we had some healer turnover, so when they wiped on Brutallus I had to get back in because they couldn't seem to figure it out without me. Using scrolls and Ironshields, I was actually taking only slightly more damage per hit than the druid. The biggest change was DPS. After so long our DPS is used to the threat output of Warrior/Druid. When I stepped in they noticed a large difference. I'm doing about 400TPS more than the other tanks. In your situation that's probably your best selling point if you want to tank. You should be able to out TPS the other tanks if threat is an issue for your guild, but I get the impression they outgear you. I don't know the warrior's gear, but if you have a very well geared druid, he's probably a good choice.
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Postby Elsie » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:55 pm

Druids just have more stomp surviability (over-cap) and Barksin-taunt which is where any tank dies. Plus a slight avoidance advantage. That's why people prefer them. They also have a bit better group synergy with lotp. If threat was ever an issue on this fight you'd have double paladin tanks.

I'm pretty sure unless a burn is out I have at least 2 paladins, 1 shaman, 1-2 druids hotting me. We also cheat though and 2 shadow priests full-heal their side after taunt (nerf VE geeze).

Still, any tank is going to die to roflstomp without sunwell gear.
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Postby fiorina » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:30 pm

Well, your gear is more like early BT, not exactly Brutallus level. It's possible to do it indeed, but your healers can't make mistakes.

Also, get rid of speed talent and get redoubt and shield specialization.
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