Melee on Archimonde

Winterchill, Anetheron, Kaz'rogal, Azgalor, Archimonde

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Melee on Archimonde

Postby Achtung » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:23 pm

Do people take a lot of melee into Archimonde?

So far we've downed him once, but we have had problems repeating the feat and it's really starting to annoy me. Something that seems to be common point in Archimonde wipes is that our melee get cleaned up by a Doomfire. For example, the other night on our last attempt, we were going fairly well, everyone was running around avoiding fires, decursing etc, then a Doomfire swings into the melee group and all 5 of them get incinerated. It was like watching a steamroller flatten a line of trees.

Are we stacking too much melee? Should melee be doing something differently than what they are doing now? Are they just tards who focus on ePeen DPS numbers instead of actually watching what is going on?

I want to get Archimonde down on a more regular basis, and we keep hitting a wall.
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Postby Worldie » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:35 pm

I think we actually did archi once with 7 melees (3 rogues, 2 druids, 1 war, 1 paladin).

As long as you got a dedicated decurser (for us, one of the druids) it's fine.
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Postby PsiVen » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:59 pm

Doomfire going through the melee is a direct result of someone failing to kite the fires properly, most likely people are either sidestepping them or getting too far away from the doomfires such that they rapidly pick a new target to follow on the other side of the boss. If melee get air burst and end up with a fire chasing them before they return to melee range they need to kite like everybody else.
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Postby Achtung » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:37 pm

Hang on, so Doomfires will change targets if people run away too effectively? Whats the margin of error between dying in a fire, kiting the doomfire, running away and having the fire change target?
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Postby Makaijin » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:29 pm

The doomfires travel just a tad slower than typical running speed. You don't have to kite it really far, maybe in the region of 40 yards (healing range) or so. There is no need to kite it futher, as the doomfires cannot make sharp turns. By the time it makes a U turn the fire would have ended.
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Postby Achtung » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:10 pm

PsiVen wrote:people are either sidestepping them or getting too far away from the doomfires


What I mean is, how far is too far? Obviously you want people to be getting the hell away from the Doomfires, but staying close enough that they don't switch targets. I think if I tell our raiders to run away from the doomfires, but keep close at the same time, we're gonna have a bunch of people getting doomfired.
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Postby Tyaera » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:13 pm

Tell melee basically to stay the hell out if theres a doomfire ANYWHERE near them.

If you feel like downloading 75mb, this is our guild's first kill from the point of one of our feral druids.

We had him plus two rogues plus a fury warrior, none of them died.

As you can see he spends a long portion of the fight away from Archi.

http://rapidshare.com/files/138034244/Archimonde.wmv.html
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Postby Achtung » Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:42 pm

I'll check it out once I get home from work.

I dunno why, but I just get this feeling that our melee players get tunnel vision and just go balls out on DPS without properly looking around for Doomfires.

From what I can recall, on our first downing of Archi, we only had like 2 or 3 melee in the raid, one of which was a feral druid who ended up spamming heals anyway.
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Postby Tyaera » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:07 am

archi is certainly a fight where the difficulty scales proportionally the more melee you bring.
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Postby Seloei » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:23 am

The fires do not spawn inside his hitbox, and unless it makes an U turn to go for the melee as it spawns, they are safe. It's all about skill and being able to avoid the fires. It is however much harder for the melee to get back in with a air bust than ranged.
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Postby Solitatis » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:55 am

we bring 6-8 melee on archi, typically 7. As long as they dont airlift the tank they can do what ever they want.
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Postby Antagonist » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:21 am

Melee carries archi actually.

Not ALL melee mind you, but specifically Rogues and Warriors with an Enhancement Shaman nearby to drop a tremor totem.

Both classes have so many ways to deal with all the bullshit that isn't Doomfire, that so long as they keep their heads on straight about one coming into melee range, they have a dedicated decurser, and your ranged folks kite properly, they'll lead damage by a WIDE margin.

Just to give the example of Rogues, which I know best, being able to Vanish an airburst or fear, trinket another fear, cloak a bad doomfire once a minute, and sprint into or out of range on demand makes thefight trivial if you have an ounce of situational awareness. Add a tremor totem to the mix and it's GG.

Warriors can 'zerk rage, and also intercept out of an airburst.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:37 am

Antagonist wrote:Melee carries archi actually.

Not ALL melee mind you, but specifically Rogues and Warriors with an Enhancement Shaman nearby to drop a tremor totem.

Both classes have so many ways to deal with all the bullshit that isn't Doomfire, that so long as they keep their heads on straight about one coming into melee range, they have a dedicated decurser, and your ranged folks kite properly, they'll lead damage by a WIDE margin.

Just to give the example of Rogues, which I know best, being able to Vanish an airburst or fear, trinket another fear, cloak a bad doomfire once a minute, and sprint into or out of range on demand makes thefight trivial if you have an ounce of situational awareness. Add a tremor totem to the mix and it's GG.

Warriors can 'zerk rage, and also intercept out of an airburst.


Yeah that works well, the only problem with a lot of melee is that an airburst can lift all of them out, and with a lot of melee, the odds are higher for lots of air bursts. Archie's pretty squishy though, so they can do a lot of damage and shorten the fight.
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Postby Antagonist » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:01 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
Antagonist wrote:Melee carries archi actually.

Not ALL melee mind you, but specifically Rogues and Warriors with an Enhancement Shaman nearby to drop a tremor totem.

Both classes have so many ways to deal with all the bullshit that isn't Doomfire, that so long as they keep their heads on straight about one coming into melee range, they have a dedicated decurser, and your ranged folks kite properly, they'll lead damage by a WIDE margin.

Just to give the example of Rogues, which I know best, being able to Vanish an airburst or fear, trinket another fear, cloak a bad doomfire once a minute, and sprint into or out of range on demand makes thefight trivial if you have an ounce of situational awareness. Add a tremor totem to the mix and it's GG.

Warriors can 'zerk rage, and also intercept out of an airburst.


Yeah that works well, the only problem with a lot of melee is that an airburst can lift all of them out, and with a lot of melee, the odds are higher for lots of air bursts. Archie's pretty squishy though, so they can do a lot of damage and shorten the fight.


Rogues and Warriors have so many ways to 1) avoid airbursts, or 2) get back in after one, that it's silly not to stack 'em, and throw in a shaman for the totems.
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Postby Achtung » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:28 pm

Airbursts aren't the problem.

The problem is melee getting cleaned up by Doomfires, thus giving Archi like 5 or 6 soul charges.
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