M'uru Guide with a Paladin Side Tank

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Postby Ziv » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:44 am

I didn't think to look at the WWS, but I took 35k less melee damage on our second kill. Obviously a poor basis for comparison since the two reports are so far apart (also took 30k less shadow damage), but I was using the same gear/consumables (sans Iron Shield Potions.) Guess it probably was just a matter of knowing the fight better the 2nd time around and having a more solid stun rotation. :roll:

I lay my Consecration up against the door. I can think of a few things that may cause the hunter to have initial aggro though. The trap extends further out, the mob could engage between ticks, and I'm 99% sure that a Consecration will not tick through the door's force field, hah. :P
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Postby Cakes » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:32 am

Ziv wrote:I lay my Consecration up against the door. I can think of a few things that may cause the hunter to have initial aggro though. The trap extends further out, the mob could engage between ticks, and I'm 99% sure that a Consecration will not tick through the door's force field, hah. :P


Let me see if I can dig up some hard evidence, but I'm 100% positive it's because the hunter's frost trap can extend outside the door. This often happens if the hunter puts the trap too close to the door and the adds come in a staggered fashion (i.e. berserker first, mage later or vice versa). More often then not, I see this on the first wave and while not entirely harmless, if you let the cast slip, it's okay too. I much prefer the hunter taking a 5k hit at the beginning of the fight and saving my stun for when I need it rather than interrupting that first cast.
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Postby Nicki » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:16 pm

ok well my guild today is going to try a pally tank on entrance point adds but i dont know if his gear is suited to it enough and if i should pull out some stops and use myself...I know im undergeared a bit, this is my off spec as it stands.

So the question is:
Tank A (yes the neck and rings are his main pieces afaik as ive never seeen anything else ever)

Me! I have some gear options available but this is my best avoidance setup and yes the booots are not enchanted yet...

My guess is neither of us has the level of gear avoidance for muru add tanking but well had to see what other people think..
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Postby Worldie » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:27 pm

Actually your gear is better than his.

He really lacks avoidance, he'll get teared apart from the Berserkers.

You might survive but you lack armor and stamina and..... spelldamage on legs?
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Postby Elsie » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:19 pm

I concur with Worldie. Your avoidance is superior and you should be over 18k buffed HP. HP past 18-19k is just a safety. Your armor seems a bit lower, though.

Your gear is a bit sub-standard given the difficulty of m'uru, the second to last boss in TBC, but with a good healer and rogues it shouldn't be a problem.

You would probably have to use your focus on a non-targetted berserker to stun it during blade flurry. You take less burst this way, but your healer gets less downtime.
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Postby Arquine » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:51 pm

Nicki wrote:ok well my guild today is going to try a pally tank on entrance point adds but i dont know if his gear is suited to it enough and if i should pull out some stops and use myself...I know im undergeared a bit, this is my off spec as it stands.

So the question is:
Tank A (yes the neck and rings are his main pieces afaik as ive never seeen anything else ever)

Me! I have some gear options available but this is my best avoidance setup and yes the booots are not enchanted yet...

My guess is neither of us has the level of gear avoidance for muru add tanking but well had to see what other people think..


do every other guild run with T6 chest and shoulders these days =( .

I've got pretty much similar gear, also wondering if I'm actually up for tanking the sides. So far my GM doesn't believe paladins can do it.

have roughly
30.74% Dodge
18.99% Parry

unbuffed

I think I hit 19.8k or something like that with BOK + Stam (without commanding)

with 593 unbuffed spell damage.

I'm using some crappy t5 shoulders, but I do have the supremus shoulder in my bag and tempted to use them for survivability but can't see past the threat loss from dropping my t5 shoulders.
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Postby Nicki » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:29 am

Worldie wrote:Actually your gear is better than his.

He really lacks avoidance, he'll get teared apart from the Berserkers.

You might survive but you lack armor and stamina and..... spelldamage on legs?


Well I play ret (as in went from tanking up to RoS to killing brutallus) so the spell damage on legs was a logical choice then I might change it..

Armor and stam wise yeah he has more ill probably put on the badge vendor ring.

Wouldn't even be asking this if we didn't have our feral afk today. 1% wipe last week suckzors
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Postby Arquine » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:02 pm

I was wondering what's the rough uptime for 2/5 reckoning for the sides tanking? I've been thinking about using the cookie cutter build but move 2 pts from spell warding into reckoning for more agro.

I'd really like to keep imp judgement so I have only a 3 seconds loophole in my block value fluctuation.

what build did Psiven use in that video?
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Postby Arquine » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:07 pm

Elsie wrote:From my experience you don't get bursted down often enough to want health pots. The damage is 'steady' so to speak so iron shields are more bang for your buck.

Actually, I can even quantify it. Iron Shields give about 2.5% reduction from armor. My last M'uru wws KO I took 403,000 physical damage. That means with 3 iron shields I absorbed over 10,075 damage.
A health potion heals on average 2000 damage, or 6000 over the same amount of time.

The hunter info is interesting, and all the more reason to kill that darned mage first to me. It could also be your placement of consecrate.



I was told the maths is wrong I think. It should roughly mitigate 40k damage. 403,000 physical damage received is after mitigation, you actually received 1.2 million damage in that fight, and assuming you have 20k armour that's like 2.7% , so roughly around 40k damage.
Last edited by Arquine on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby inthedrops » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:08 pm

Arquine wrote:I was wondering what's the rough uptime for 2/5 reckoning for the sides tanking? I've been thinking about using the cookie cutter build but move 2 pts from spell warding into reckoning for more agro.

I'd really like to keep imp judgement so I have only a 3 seconds loophole in my block value fluctuation.

what build did Psiven use in that video?


I don't tank the doors, but I really don't see 2% spell warding as a huge benefit for this fight. You're going to get over heal spammed like crazy anyway and assuming the mages die first you're not taking many hits. If it's a matter of subbing 2/2 spell warding for 2/5 reck I'd totally do it. I wouldn't say the same thing for KJ reflections though...
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Postby Arquine » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:20 pm

well, I am seriously considering leaving the mage for last. I have glaives on my side and I think we should go for the one I'd probably be most confident in holding agro - one of the zerkers.
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Postby Mithos » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:36 pm

Don't leave the mage till last, she will start fireball spamming you if left alone which could really hurt with a flurry up. Tbh you don't even have to tank the mages - I tank the entrance side to help the mages control sheeping better on the other side and if they come in in a very weird way (which often happens) then I focus on the berserkers so they don't go say hi to a healer or SPriest and announce clearly on TS "don't have mage". The rogue who has aggro the pops evasion and they know to stun/interupt it a lot more. I then taunt a few secs after I see them stun and JoR it.

This is what typically happens on my side, with 2 rogues, fury warrior and ret pala/melee shaman: For the wave spawn, me and the melee back away from the door about 10 yards.

If they come in nicely (together) or the mage is the first mob in with the 2 berserkers together behind, I frizbee as soon as they are through the door or wait to frizbee such that when it FIRES (not LANDS, this is important) the zerkers are in the room, so it hits all 3. I then judge the mage twice then swap to zerkers. Noone pulls aggro unless I forget RF >.>. The fury warr, on the kill, didn't even have salv for the first 3 waves :>.

If they come in in a dodgy manner (zerker, mage, zerker or mage+zerker, zerker) I frizbee as soon as the first mob is through the door, JoR the spare zerker and announce clearly on TS "don't have mage" so the melee can control it a lot more than they normally have to.

A dodgy entrance sequence can totally screw you up on that side if you don't react fast. The fury warr intercepts the mage to cancel the initial cast for more control and if it's a REALLY dodgy entrance then I use a frost grenade to root them when they get in (has a large radius), hence why the melee start away from the door. This allows me to frizbee all 3 of them as they aren't massively spread out anyway but it's not safe to wait for them all to come in unless you root them. This doesn't really impact DPS as, with WF totem/melee shammy, we have like 10-15 seconds spare each wave and sometimes up to 25 when people use CDs.

But seriously, the mages are weak unless they get the instant cast buff - hit them a bit, judge them twice and then focus on berserkers.
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Postby Arquine » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:51 pm

then again mages can always spellsteal the buff ...

I don't think I'd like to risk a crit on our rogue even while on evasion, plus it can't be used everytime. I'm most probably going to do KJ side, but both sides will have a glaive. The KJ side will have a glaive rogue, so my single target TPS must be rather insane. The other side has a pair of glaives who spams WW/SS and I'm afraid if I go for zerkers first he'll agro the mage.
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Postby Elsie » Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:44 am

On the other side, my guild uses a feral druid. He doesn't touch the mage except for bash.

They just use a series of intercept / cloak of shadows or spell reflect / kidney shot / bash. We don't have a glaive rogue either.
You could probably get away with the same and just throw a stun and taunt out there at some point.
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Postby Mithos » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:57 pm

mages spell steal the buff on the other side, its melee my side and 2 mages 2 hunters the other side + help on demand from a M'uru DPSer.

Actually 3 of the melee (the rogues and warrior) have the MH glaive, but none have the OH :(.
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