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First Ramps Run - Normal

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

First Ramps Run - Normal

Postby Beriis » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:15 am

Ok, so I just turned 59 and was feeling pretty decent about my gearing,
so I asked a couple guildies and a couple friends if they would run ramps
with me tanking.

(My armory [url]http://www.wowarmory.com/character-
sheet.xml?r=Ravencrest&n=Beriis[/url])

They agreed, but of course when the time came 2 of our 5 didn't show. We pug'ed one spot and gave the other to a 65 prot pally in my guild who had never run an outlands instance to off tank. In the end we were a 59pally(me), a 60lock, a 63 druid(healing), a 61 warrior and a 65 pally.
I know this is not the best makeup for a group...the original plan was for a mage and a fury warrior, but c'est la vie.

Run was very smooth from entry to Omorr(sp?) despite me making a few sloppy pulls, I could hold everything andmy healer rocked. When we got to Omorr, I think the issue was not having enough dps to kill him fast. Healer just couldn't keep up by the 3rd and 4th time i got thrown, and we wiped several times. Anyway we finally got him down, and moved on to the last boss.

By this time it was
getting late and we only tried 3 times, but we couldn't get the dragon
down. I tanked the rider while the dragon was flying, and had the other
pally wait to pick up the dragon when it landed. Each time we got the
rider down, but dragon killed the other pally or ignored him until healer
was dead. By the time I got to the dragon either the healer was dead or
all our dps was.

I would appreciate any advice either on the instance or
my gear and/or spec. Also, how much of this could be attributed to bad
group makeup? (I was #1 on dmgmeter by about 10%) I know I'm low
lvl to be tanking anything in outlands but i wanted to try it.
Sorry for the wall of text,
Beriis

edit:spaced for easier reading ty guillex[color=blue]
[/color]
Last edited by Beriis on Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:48 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby guillex » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:16 am

Use the Enter key.

Please.

It exists for a reason.
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Postby Beriis » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:28 am

Why did the body of my post disappear when i added spacing??
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Postby Lookit » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:19 am

If the body of your post was highlighted and you hit the enter or space key, it might have erased the post. If it wasn't that, not sure.
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Help!!

Postby Beriis » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:22 am

If I edit the OP I can still see all the text, but when I try to post it, it comes up blank?? Don't know whats going on...
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Mod, please lock or delete

Postby Beriis » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:25 am

Ok, im gonna repost as a new topic maybe that'll work. Could a mod lock or delete this topic please?
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Postby guillex » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:27 am

It probably has something to do with your sig ... Do you have a sig? Have you just entered one in? Are you SURE that it's working properly?
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Postby Beriis » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:28 am

Actually I have no sig, so it shouldnt be a problem...
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Re: First Ramps Run - Normal

Postby Kelaan » Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:15 pm

It looks like newlines in your URL tag messed thigns up; when I went to paste in an editor, it looked manually word-wrapped. I'll quote what you have in the first post so that we can read it. :)


Beriis wrote:Ok, so I just turned 59 and was feeling pretty decent about my gearing, so I asked a couple guildies and a couple friends if they would run ramps with me tanking.

(My armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... t&n=Beriis )

They agreed, but of course when the time came 2 of our 5 didn't show. We pug'ed one spot and gave the other to a 65 prot pally in my guild who had never run an outlands instance to off tank. In the end we were a 59 pally (me), a 60 lock, a 63 druid (healing), a 61 warrior and a 65 pally. I know this is not the best makeup for a group...the original plan was for a mage and a fury warrior, but c'est la vie.

Run was very smooth from entry to Omorr(sp?) despite me making a few sloppy pulls, I could hold everything andmy healer rocked. When we got to Omorr, I think the issue was not having enough dps to kill him fast. Healer just couldn't keep up by the 3rd and 4th time i got thrown, and we wiped several times. Anyway we finally got him down, and moved on to the last boss.

By this time it was getting late and we only tried 3 times, but we couldn't get the dragon down. I tanked the rider while the dragon was flying, and had the other pally wait to pick up the dragon when it landed. Each time we got the rider down, but dragon killed the other pally or ignored him until healer was dead. By the time I got to the dragon either the healer was dead or all our dps was.

I would appreciate any advice either on the instance or my gear and/or spec. Also, how much of this could be attributed to bad group makeup? (I was #1 on dmgmeter by about 10%) I know I'm low lvl to be tanking anything in outlands but i wanted to try it.

Sorry for the wall of text,
Beriis

edit:spaced for easier reading ty guillex
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Postby Kelaan » Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:28 pm

.. and now to actually reply to your questions. :)

we couldn't get the dragon down. I tanked the rider while the dragon was flying, and had the other pally wait to pick up the dragon when it landed. Each time we got the rider down, but dragon killed the other pally or ignored him until healer was dead. By the time I got to the dragon either the healer was dead or all our dps was.


Wow. The other paladin, at 65, should have had PLENTY of health to handle it. It might be that You were soaking enough damage that the healer couldn't multitask between the two of you. Remember that the dragon can (and should!) be taunted as he lands, and that a sequence of Taunt, Judgement, Avenger's Shield (if possible)} will give much more threat than the healer has. If the healer's threat was that high, you were likely taking lots of damage (and maybe lots of aoe damage to the group from fireballs). Other tank needs to learn to taunt. (And you should, if you're ever tanking it.)

The dragon lands after a set time, or after a %health on the orc. You need some good DPS (or an offtank to taunt the orc off of you) in order to limit the time you're being beat on by both.

As far as not dying on the dragon: Fire resistance aura, some +FR greens, and the tactic of waling backwards in giant circles (So that you don't stand in flame patches) are all very valuable. For waht it's worth, I never EVER could tank him at the recommended level -- either my healer failed, or I'd fumble it, or I just didn't have the effective health. (Going from 59 to 61, your health will basically double.)

How much of this could be attributed to bad group makeup? (I was #1 on dmgmeter by about 10%) I know I'm low lvl to be tanking anything in outlands but i wanted to try it.


If you're "too low level" to be tanking it, that's likely a big contributing factor. Your warlock and warrior may have been holding back (or not realizing they could...) on AOE or multi-target attacks, also. (Whirlwind > my damage for almost ALL warriors.) You're also going to be taking a LOT of damage:

- not alot of +defense gear at 59
- half the health pool and significantly less armor means low Effective Health
- 3 levels below the bosses means that they will be crushing you, and are probably capable of critting you anyway.

Watch your healer's mana bar -- if they're getting really low every fight, and spammming Big Heals to keep you up, it's likely that either you or they don't have the proper gear.

You could have gotten more DPS, too. A prot paladin, even in DPS gear, is going to do less than a clueful DPS specced class. Still, it was a good idea for the dragon fight, if he'd actually been able to tank. He might've had experience tanking in Azeroth instances, but if he didn't tank Outlands instances, I expect he solo-aoe-ground msot of the way, and thus didn't have much experience with groups, keybindings, and maintaining (or re-gaining) threat.
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Postby Beriis » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:34 am

Thank you for fixing my post!!

And also thanks for the advice. I just hit 60 and will be trying it again soon hopefully with more dps.

Also, is there a guideline for how much def you need to be uncrit by level? I know 490 for 70 vs 73boss but what does that work out to at lower levels?

Thanks again for the input,

Beriis
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Postby Kelaan » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:57 am

I wouldn't stress about defense at your level, honestly. The plate tanking quest rewards in hellfire (very clear which those are when you see them) all hav buckets of armor and stamina on them. Work for those, they will last a while. e.g., flintlocke's pants, and the helmet with like 42 stamina on it. Those, plus some Sta/def BOE greens should be enough to kit you decently -- and then you can get some much nicer upgrades from Ramparts itself.
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Postby Grimmal » Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:36 pm

As was said about the dragon, the main issue I've seen with groups wiping on it is that the tank stands in the fire trying to straight tank him instead of pulling him around. I've seen this playing a healer and I've seen this trying to tank him myself for the first time and dying quickly.

Another tip for the dragon which as far as I know works is to use Avenger's Shield while he is in the air. I know it can and does hit him, just not sure if it actually taunts. I believe it does though as he has always came straight for me when I've done that.

As far as gear goes, go for either Champion or the Sorcerer if you have cash to spend on greens. Both will do you well until you get quest upgrades and/or hit 70 and start seriously gearing.
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