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M'uru Guide with a Paladin Side Tank

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Postby Elsie » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:55 pm

My guild decided to put me on the entrance side, instead of down the hall. I am curious on what everyone thinks the benefits of the south side (kil'jaeden entrance) are compared to the north. I have never done the south side and I am curious if it is easier or harder. I know that I can't avenger's shield ever because the close proximity in which the mobs become "active" however, since they become active in a set spot I know exactly where they will be, instead of having the mage chain fire ball me and run down towards the end.

Generally the KJ side is easier since you can more reliably use Avenger's Shield and Frost Trap. Like Lore said, 80% the time they stick immediately to you, but I've experienced a case similar to the old Leotheras where they run, hit a healer once, then come back to me (regardless of if my threat's higher) since they run so fast.

Other problem I am having is that my agro on the mage completly sucks compared to the bezerkers (as it obviously should), however it has gotten to the point where we are killing the mage last, so that our mages can spell steal the buff/counter spell and dps muru. I am currently running with two warriors and if they sweeping strikes/cleave and get a lucky(unlucky) crit string on the mage, the agro is theirs. However if they "back off" on sweeping strikes it seems like our side will not kill the adds within time.

Yeah, that happens. I still recommend killing the mage first because it's more bursty. Spellstealing, if a little slow, can cause insta-gib in my experience. Spellsteal, especially with the fight changes, isn't really necessary.
If you continually have aggro problems on the mage, prioritize judgement -> consecrate -> reseal -> holy shield. Remember he's tauntable. I also recommend not using any interrupt affects in case you lose aggro since the mage can melee crit for 8k.

I'm working on a massive overhaul of this guide to look similar to worldie's. Should be ready in a day or two.

New tech: snake trap. I'll let you simmer on that for a bit.
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Postby Cakes » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:42 am

Elsie wrote:
New tech: snake trap. I'll let you simmer on that for a bit.


I'm guessing this is some form of Negative Energy absorber similar to what we did on Shade of Aran back in the day?

In any case, we switched to a variant of this strategy with a pally tank on the side and a lesser geared pally tank on the spawns, and it seems to be working well. Once we got all of our groups coordinated, we're hitting p2 nearly every time. Entrop at 25% on our best attempt, now we just need to learn the nuances of p2.
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Postby Ankh » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:30 am

double post, if this can be deleted. Go for it.
Last edited by Ankh on Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ankh » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:42 am

PsiVen wrote:
If i begin to add more it comes to the point where the intake of melee dmg from losing the stats is not worth the extra SR.


Melee damage from the void spawns.............?

Or are you saying you intentionally take more damage from the spawns so that you can pick up whatever when another tank dies? This sounds like an absurd contingency. I cannot fathom what your strategy could entail that would allow you to pick up adds from the side door after a tank died and before anyone else did, then successfully DPS those adds with void spawns on you on track for a kill.

Yes the void spawns do melee.
And if you look when you have about 170SR there melee is about 20-25% of your damage intake.
It takes 1 healer for you to be healed no matter what , you might as well be useful. You do not need full SR/spelldmg to take super less dmg, and then becoming useless expcept in that job.
You can do it with 175ish buffed and normal spelldmg and still be only half using a druid healer, who can devote half his time to you and the rest to the other tanks.
And to PsiVen , yes i also try to be high on mana for p2 start so i can finish off my mobs myself and help.
No im really not taking more dmg. Gear is at the point that if you sacrafice anther peice or 2 of gear for SR, you begin to take more melee dmg from the void spawns that negatives the dmg save. When you could stay useful.
Our realm has been pretty unstable lately, so we occasionally have tanks etc disconnect. Being able to fill a role till they can get online or to try to salvage a wipe is kinda nice.
IF you can keep people from just giving up and halfA'ing it because its harder.
Also im not sure why youd think its absurd to be able to pick up a side add? You can reach there with taunt normally.
Anyhow just trying to help people by making sure they arnt set into a mentallity , that this strat = a must. When there is plenty of ways to do it, and you should try to do what works best for your raid.
Aka ~ do what works. Figuring stuff out will get you a new kill way sooner then doing a strat that doesnt fit for your guild.
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Postby PsiVen » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:14 am

Well, more power to you for doing what works. The reasoning on damage taken for pure void spawns is just wrong though. They melee for 100-200, and with the way resistance works every point you add is worth more than the last. You might be seeing that the melee damage is a higher percentage, because you're taking far less shadow damage...

snake trap

Doesn't running in to drop this thoroughly interrupt the hunter's DPS? If they're not shooting adds they can turn around and go on M'uru, so there's no downtime for it.
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Postby Ziv » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:28 am

I recorded our first kill (well, more like me looking the door for 6 minutes.) There are a few notable screw ups, but maybe this will help someone who's never done the door... :roll:

http://files.filefront.com/trample+vs+m ... einfo.html
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Postby Stings » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:22 pm

I've done the door aswell on our first kill. (With me frapsing)
http://89.186.169.160/ll/08_08_05_Muru_FK_final.avi

I have a few advices for ppl with the same task.

1. Drop your consecration so it only just reaches where the mobs enters the door. This will allow it to tick an extra time so those going for healers turn around in time.
2. My Enhancement shaman handles all interruption of the caster, allowing us to take it last while a mage spellsteals the buff when its up = extra M'uru dps. Also i get alot of time to build threat on it compared to if we started on the mage.
3. Pop wings on the last pack to allow the dps to rape them, giving a good clean phase shift.

Anyway its all in the video executed perfectly :)

We use a holy pala in healer gear with 365 SR to take the void spawns. Instead of using another prot for this, we had an extra holy pala for phase 2 with ~1800 +healing.
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Postby Elsie » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:34 pm

Sorry for the long delay, but it's updated.

To the question about snake trap: It's mostly done as a joke in my guild but Mind Numbing Poison is a pretty good deal. The fight is basically paced for Sentinel 9 to be the last and good ranged DPS can more than easily burst M'uru down for it with or without much hunter help. There's plenty of time for them.

To ankh: It takes half a healer to keep an SR capped Void Spawn tank up. A druid can throw hots on him and call it a day 75% the fight.
Anyhow just trying to help people by making sure they arnt set into a mentallity , that this strat = a must. When there is plenty of ways to do it, and you should try to do what works best for your raid.

Err, no. You're not. You're saying it's unnecessary and not helpful as well as saying my post as inaccurate when it was. You're not being helpful at all by posting here to argue rather than share your story and strat variation. Any guild on m'uru knows to do what works for them and to adapt or they wouldn't be on m'uru. Everyone agrees, props to you for making your method work. Please try to keep further posts in this threat to helping others with the guide's intent or their questions.
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Postby Ankh » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:03 pm

Elsie wrote:Sorry for the long delay, but it's updated.

To ankh: It takes half a healer to keep an SR capped Void Spawn tank up. A druid can throw hots on him and call it a day 75% the fight.

Any guild on m'uru knows to do what works for them and to adapt or they wouldn't be on m'uru. .


So then, we agree it takes the same amount of healing to heal the person in full SR, and with only 170SR buffed.
So then doesnt it make sense to possibly gear without having SR capped so you can do other things as well?

I dunno if i agree with any guild on m'uru knowing what todo. There are alot of guilds stuck on him.
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Postby Worldie » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:17 pm

Zomg you stole my style :P

Alright i think i can sticky it for now.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Elsie » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:07 am

Hey now, it isn't theft if I asked first =P

Any suggestions on sections to add or flesh out are welcome. I opted to remove the raid make up and specific gear recommendations. You raid with what you can, and I'm pretty sure the gearing up section covers things more generally.
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Postby Magnusharkov » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:34 am

I'm still a long way off M'uru here, but I would be curious to read a short discussion of *why* a paladin is best suited to side adds as opposed to another tanking class, or as opposed to a different role in the encounter. However its no biggie if this isn't in the intended scope of the guide.
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Postby Elsie » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:16 pm

I'm still a long way off M'uru here, but I would be curious to read a short discussion of *why* a paladin is best suited to side adds as opposed to another tanking class, or as opposed to a different role in the encounter. However its no biggie if this isn't in the intended scope of the guide.

All three classes are suited for it, really.

Warrior lets you sheep one, reduces healing, and brings battle shout for his side but contributes much less personal DPS. They also can have trouble picking up all 3 mobs.

Druids bring much more raid dps than other tanks with Leader of the Pack, but have trouble holding threat on all 3 consecutively while Swipe doesn't play well with sheep. If swipe misses, they have little to fall back on for initial aggro.

Paladins bring the most overall mitigation (bar sheep), and they have the easiest pick up by simply dropping a consecrate - which can't miss even if Avenger's shield does. They have the highest secondary and main target threat. Their personal DPS is extremely high for a tank here, and they help maintain hunter/shaman mana. Also, if someone gets battle res'd, you can re-bless them where if you were using outside paladins this would not be the case. DPS can die on this fight. They also bring healing and some DPS to phase 2 if CDs are done well.

I won't add it to the main section, but the jist is we have the best pick up method and threat with a slight advantage in mitigation.

Typically, for side DPS druid > paladin > warrior.
For add pick up, Paladin > druid > warrior.
For add mitigation, Paladin > druid > warrior.
For survivability, warrior > paladin > druid.
For p2 DPS, druid > all
For overall add DPS, Druid > paladin > warrior

The biggest advantage might be p2 with a paladin/paladin/warrior/druid set up. You get 2 judgements, warrior debuffs, druid debuffs without any overlap.
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Postby Ziv » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:15 pm

Something I thought I'd mention. If you're on the door side, the hunter's frost trap generally causes him to get initial aggro on the mage, so stopping her first cast is recommended. :P

I've also found Iron Shield potions to be unnecessary. Yes, they do help, but more often than not, the Druid or Warrior tank will die. (As best I can recall, I've died once to wipe the raid.) However, the DPS and the amount of stuns I had was probably a factor (Rogue, BM Hunter, Holy Paladin, myself, etc.) ~80-90% of the time, Flurries get stunned and I'm sitting pretty. I personally feel more comfortable using Health Potions. :shock:
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Postby Elsie » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:12 am

From my experience you don't get bursted down often enough to want health pots. The damage is 'steady' so to speak so iron shields are more bang for your buck.

Actually, I can even quantify it. Iron Shields give about 2.5% reduction from armor. My last M'uru wws KO I took 403,000 physical damage. That means with 3 iron shields I absorbed over 10,075 damage.
A health potion heals on average 2000 damage, or 6000 over the same amount of time.

The hunter info is interesting, and all the more reason to kill that darned mage first to me. It could also be your placement of consecrate.
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