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"Undergeared" to MT Hyjal Bosses

Winterchill, Anetheron, Kaz'rogal, Azgalor, Archimonde

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"Undergeared" to MT Hyjal Bosses

Postby TheHonage » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:03 am

Hey all, so I've been getting second slot in tanking later bosses in Mount Hyjal. I have better stats than the MT warrior, however, atm I'm being told that I'm undergeared for a pally to MT later Hyjal Bosses -- I understand that I am in mostly badge/za/some ssc gear, but still. I personally think that he is insane because I've been losing mana on SSC/TK bosses, but I'd like a second opinion.

Raidbuffed Stats (Uncrush/Uncirt, obviously):

Avoidence: 52% <-- aproxomite
Armor: 18689
Hp: 23047
Block Value: 469
Spell Damage: 449
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Postby Seloei » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:54 am

That hp is a bit over the top and i'm guessing your trying to count in every buff possible.

t5 geared tanks are enough for starter t6 content, his not just willing to let you try. But if you really (have those numbers) you should be ready to tank it all. Even archi, bit low on armor and avoidance tho.
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Postby Worldie » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:27 pm

23k hp o_O?

You need less than 20k to tank bosses in Hyjal.

You are overgeared for hyjal, not undergeared. Altho, you could use 3k less HP and 10% more avoidance.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby fiorina » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:02 pm

Kungen had like 17k HP while tanking Illidan. Undergeared for skill level of your mates maybe.
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Postby TheHonage » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:51 am

23 is fully buffed -- like 17ish unbuffed depending on gear, but all that I usually am missing from that is imp, which leaves me at like 22k. As far as avoidence I feel its superoverrated and don't try to max it. I can drop a lot of hp or some +damage/hit/expertise for another 5-10% avoid, but I didn't figure it was worth it.
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Postby inthedrops » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:14 am

You're not really under-geared. It's more likely that you're running into something else which has been discussed to death. Things like:

1) Your guild doesn't think paladins should be tanking these bosses (for whatever reason). And for a couple bosses there is good reason to user other comparably geared tanking classes instead of paladins.
2) They just don't like you as a guild member. You're a jerk, complainer, loot whore...whatever.
3) They think paladins (and you personally) are fine but they have concerns about your tanking such as threat or survivability (dps or healers complain when you tank, etc.). For example, maybe the healers see you as a mana sponge compared to warriors/druids (your avoidance is very low)
4) You suck playing a tank. Since you're on these forums it's highly doubtful that you suck :)

It's usually #1. But often it's #1 and #3 combined which prevents a paladin from tanking bosses.

My personal advice would be to ask the raid leader where exactly he feels you are undergeared. Get a discussion going. Ask him (in a non confrontational way) what he thinks you need to achieve in order to not be undergeared. You'll quickly find out if he's in the #1 camp or something else.
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Postby Worldie » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:25 am

You forgot
5) Your Guild is completely clueless about raiding, and is one of those guilds who require tanks with 14k unbuffed HP to tank Karazhan and 19k unbuffed HP to tank heroic SV.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby TheHonage » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:33 pm

To tell the truth, I think it is number five. We run a very, very specific matrix, and if 2-3+ classes have to be swapped out our raid leaders won't raid, even if it is just for a eary Hyjal sweep, or once a TK clear. Losing more than one of the following = no raid. Boomkin, Shadow Priest, Ret Paladin, Enhance Shaman, Feral Druid. Plus -- they turned down a very solidly geared druid tank even though we don't have one because they say "we have a feral dps already, we don't need your utility." Apparently a excellent tank is only usefull for utility. But I digress. They only started SSC like 6 weeks ago, so its been a FAST sprint up through 5/6 3/4 3/5. The players' gear is excellent, but I dunno. For a guild that is trying to run 4.5 hours 5-6 times a week being that inflexable can be annoying sometimes. The only time weve gone missing 2+ "utility" was by carrying an extra ele shammy instead of the boomkin and having one of our prot pally OTs speccing 0 40 21. So, yeah.

Edit: I first tanked kara at 13.7k hp, worldie ;P -- 3 days after I hit 70 on my pally, coincidentally. <3 boe epics + dw and kazzak = boe ;P
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Postby Worldie » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:15 pm

I guess your guild leader would have killed me for tanking Prince with 9k unbuffed HP back in july of last year then.

I'll just anticipate you that your guild is going to have big troubles progressing if they don't fix that mentality :)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Davalin » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:48 am

And I thought my guild leader was ignorant about what certain classes are capable of. Hope you can open his eyes
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Postby TheHonage » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:34 pm

I'm probobly done with my paladin for the moment. I'm most likely leaving guild, and playing my arcane mage for some dps funzzz until Wotlk. Theres something beautiful about being able to dump 13.5k mana, 1 mana potion, and 1 mana gem in 164 seconds while you watch enormous crits light up your screen every 1.5 seconds. Maiden was raped (1600 dps in tier 4/badge anyone?). I wanted to get into BT/MH, and I did, with a (very sexy prot pally) character created May 24th, no less. After my prot pally who I had played since a month after the release of TBC got hacked I thought I had no hope, but I got there :). Anyways, thats my plan. I'll probobly end up coming back crying to my pally and tanking heroics/10 mans with my friends at some point, but oh well.

Also, I am currently working on a large theorycrafting excell document which compares the dps outputs of certain classes and how well they scale (getting it to include mana consumption stinks though :/ ).
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Postby Holyfuri » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:42 pm

Now would be a good time to dig up that thread with Worldie's gear and stats when first tanking Illidan and show it to em, lol.
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...

Postby stroggylos » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:33 am

Well usually the problem are the guilds that cannot understand this is not a surgery table but a game ... My guild skipped ssc and tk and headed for mhj and bt with za/badge gear ... 3 weeks later we done 4/5 mhj and 30% archi and keep trying on teron ... as u see we are stuck not in gearcheck but in "if-one-messes-it-is-a-wipe" combats ... I got 450spell damage and 16k health and i am close to convince them lemme tank first two mhj bosses ... (i still got my righteous shoulders and only recently dropped wind trader's band) So imo you are just stuck in a guild that takes bosskillers tactics to be the holy bible
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Postby Worldie » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:43 am

Then they'd have to take 2-3 fury warriors and 2-3 feral druids on top of the 2-3 prot warriors to do Hyjal.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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:P

Postby stroggylos » Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:07 pm

Nah don't think that they will be needed :) well u never know if u haven;t tried though
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