Touched by the Light -- a backwards-looking talent?

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Fizzgig » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:34 am

The way I look at it is almost all of our skills now scale with both. And instead of having to itemize myself for gear with spell damage on it, this allows me to not worry about sacrificing myself as a "tank" because the spell damage will come and I can stack str/stam to get the rest of my threat. It's just allowing for a more homogeneous set of tank gear as we'll all use the same thing and our innate talents make us scale correctly off the same piece of gear.
Image
Fizzgig
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:38 am

Postby brimstoner » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:47 am

Fizzgig wrote:The way I look at it is almost all of our skills now scale with both. And instead of having to itemize myself for gear with spell damage on it, this allows me to not worry about sacrificing myself as a "tank" because the spell damage will come and I can stack str/stam to get the rest of my threat. It's just allowing for a more homogeneous set of tank gear as we'll all use the same thing and our innate talents make us scale correctly off the same piece of gear.


Bravo sir. That is exactly what I was thinking and is the way I think its intended. Sp Dmg will come, dont worry about it. Stack Stam/Str for your abilities and let the spell damage fall where it may :D.
Image
brimstoner
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:31 am

Postby Lore » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:14 am

I don't understand what the problem is with having stam convert to spellpower and not AP. Both stats increase our threat in a linear fashion, and although off-DPS is probably more effective for farmed content, off-healing midfight on new/progression fights can be just as, if not more effective.
User avatar
Lore
Global Mod
 
Posts: 7757
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Postby Aerien » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:16 am

bah no raid wide vamp aura makes me sad again! and what i've seen from the coefficients is that alot of our skill use a good portion of our spell damage. so technically with this talent we can safely ignore the fact there'll probably be little to no spell damage on our tanking gear. i still like it, and regardless of what you guys say, we will most definitely still be healing in raids whenever our superior tanking skills are not needed.
Aerien
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 9:55 pm
Location: I'm in the internets

Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:20 am

Lore wrote:I don't understand what the problem is with having stam convert to spellpower and not AP. Both stats increase our threat in a linear fashion, and although off-DPS is probably more effective for farmed content, off-healing midfight on new/progression fights can be just as, if not more effective.


Both spell hit and melee hit affect our threat in a linear fashion, and we all know how well that worked out. Obviously the analogy doesn't quite hold (dual SP/AP isn't subject to that same vulnerability), but fundamentally using two stats to achieve exactly the same mechanics purpose (in this case, raw power increase), is just a recipe for various unintended bugs popping up her and there along the way.

There's no reason for us to use both AP and SP, and therefore there's less balance risk in being completely on one or the other instead of straddling both.
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Postby Thyrion » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:43 am

Dorvan, there is one, and only one reason for us, to use both.

We are PALADINS!

If you want to scale on AP only, please reroll warrior.
When Blizzard decided to make us scale on AP only, there would be a loss in everything, this class made up for game's existance.

Spellpower helps us to remember where we came from. There is a blue bar under the green one. That means mana, if you forgot. You can't deny the whole concept of the paladin being in line with a fighter, using powers especially not coming from himself, but instead have been given to him.

It just wouldn't fit.
Image
Thyrion
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:46 am

Postby ulushnar » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:53 am

Thyrion wrote:Dorvan, there is one, and only one reason for us, to use both.

We are PALADINS!

If you want to scale on AP only, please reroll warrior.
When Blizzard decided to make us scale on AP only, there would be a loss in everything, this class made up for game's existance.

Spellpower helps us to remember where we came from. There is a blue bar under the green one. That means mana, if you forgot. You can't deny the whole concept of the paladin being in line with a fighter, using powers especially not coming from himself, but instead have been given to him.

It just wouldn't fit.


Intelligent answers kplzthnx.
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
User avatar
ulushnar
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5442
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Bollocks, Scotland

Postby ulushnar » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:56 am

Whilst I've argued against Dorvan on this one, I do appreciate his concerns. The more variables you throw in an equation the harder it becomes to balance it.

That said, I like GbtL, and I hope after four years Blizzard has worked out how to balance Hybrids.
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
User avatar
ulushnar
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5442
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Bollocks, Scotland

Postby Thyrion » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:30 am

Ulushnar, there are other ways to express that you don't understand someones arguments ...

What is a paladin?

Archbishop Faol founded the Order of the Silver hand during the second war against the Horde. His choices for the first paladins were not only based on physical power, but also on strength of faith.

What would remain of the concept of people, driven by their faith and belief to protect the others, if anything they could do, would only depend on their physical strength? If you take this away from the paladin, there would only remain a warrior with a blue ragebar and names of abilities with no meaning.
Image
Thyrion
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:46 am

Postby ulushnar » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:41 am

Thyrion wrote:Ulushnar, there are other ways to express that you don't understand someones arguments ...


I completely understood your argument, but i don't think shouting about lore/flavor reasons is a good counterpoint to a discussion of a potential game balance issue. Nobody's arguing that we become "Warriors with blue rage bars". (As an aside: how do you rationalise that items that make us more intelligent make our "faith" stronger?)

As I've stated elsewhere in this thread, I like GbtL and the potential for hybridization it offers. I do however understand Dorvan's concerns. If they're trying to balance paladins who receive two threat coefficients from standard tanking gear (one from Stamina/spellpower, one from Strength/AP) with Warriors (who just have Strength/AP as a threat stat) whilst sharing the same itemization, then things are going to get awkward to say the least.

That said I have some (possibly misplaced) confidence in Blizzard's ability to finally balance hybrid classes.
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
User avatar
ulushnar
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5442
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Bollocks, Scotland

Postby Ruex » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:52 am

"Warriors with blue rage bars".


Just as an aside, now that a good chunk of our abilities are %mana on use.. our mana bar almost acts like a rage bar in terms of size, no matter how much total Mana we have.

But this does not further the arguement at hand. Just an observation.
___________________________________
Mouths to Pay and Bills to Feed.
Ruex
 
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:40 pm
Location: Pretty Hate Machine, Niagara Falls, Canada

Postby ulushnar » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:03 am

Ruex wrote:
"Warriors with blue rage bars".


Just as an aside, now that a good chunk of our abilities are %mana on use.. our mana bar almost acts like a rage bar in terms of size, no matter how much total Mana we have.


% of base mana, before intellect, and the mechanic exists in Paladin spells atm. It's just a way to stop one-rank abilities like Cleanse costing trivial amounts or to discourage downranking of some abilities like Redepmtion.
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
User avatar
ulushnar
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5442
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Bollocks, Scotland

Postby Ruex » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:35 am

Ulushnar wrote:
Ruex wrote:
"Warriors with blue rage bars".


Just as an aside, now that a good chunk of our abilities are %mana on use.. our mana bar almost acts like a rage bar in terms of size, no matter how much total Mana we have.


% of base mana, before intellect, and the mechanic exists in Paladin spells atm. It's just a way to stop one-rank abilities like Cleanse costing trivial amounts or to discourage downranking of some abilities like Redepmtion.


Unware of this mechanic. Thanks.
___________________________________
Mouths to Pay and Bills to Feed.
Ruex
 
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:40 pm
Location: Pretty Hate Machine, Niagara Falls, Canada

Postby ulushnar » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:37 am

Ruex wrote:Unware of this mechanic. Thanks.


I should clarify i meant before +intellect (from items/buffs/enchants). I'm still a few coffees under par for a Saturday morning.
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
User avatar
ulushnar
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5442
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Bollocks, Scotland

Postby Zumor » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:07 am

base mana is the mana you have untalented, naked at your level, like level1 chars
that basemana-mechanic on spells existed from day1 of WoWclassic live, many spells had a change over years to %basemana values instead of fixed manacosts, its a way to balance old spells to new encounters without making a new rank and/or nerf old ranks of that spell.
old spells from low levels like cleanse would be OP on lvl 70 or 80 with a fixed manacost from lvl whatever you get that spell ( :lol: cant remember level)
Zumor
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:41 am

PreviousNext

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests