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minimum requirements for Zul Aman

Nalorakk, Akil'zon, Jan'alai, Halazzi, Malacrass, Zul'jin

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Lookit » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:28 am

rabbel wrote:He is just random, sometimes he casts that storm before the cooldown wears off, sometime he decides to fire two chain lightnings into the collapsed group before storming one of the few survivors. Oh, and did I mention the clothies biting the dust after getting a Gust of Wind and 2-3 of his "bruddahs" in approximately 0,04 seconds? And thats just frustrating...


Yeah, it's very important to never collapse until he actually starts casting the storm. He can easily wait another 20-30 seconds after the cooldown is up to actually cast it, during which time your entire group will be dead to chain lightning.

My group just pays attention to the boss and runs in when he casts the spell. Other groups prefer to have someone turn down all sound except for Ambience - there is a rain sound effect a second or two before he casts the spell - and call that out over vent.
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Postby Dryan » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:40 pm

There's been a bit of discussion concerning MT requirements. But what about OT requirements? I'd like to start running ZA on my alt with my T6 guild. Not ready to MT so how about some thoughts about what it takes to OT.

Thanks!
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Postby Seloei » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:15 pm

OT level would be when you can tank nightbane and or prince.
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Postby Dryan » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:39 am

Easy enough. Thanks.
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Postby Frickit » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:15 am

Dryan wrote:Easy enough. Thanks.


Id say both tanks should be pretty equally set up ideally. There isnt much of a difference between the primary and secondary tank roles in ZA.
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Postby Katerina » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am

Frickit wrote:
Dryan wrote:Easy enough. Thanks.


Id say both tanks should be pretty equally set up ideally. There isnt much of a difference between the primary and secondary tank roles in ZA.


You will do fine OTing it once you can tank Prince (I did fine.)

The threat mechanics of the Bear fight are such that even if the MT outgears you, you will be able to get him off of him. Other than that you just gotta be the trash man/damage sponge :D

The trick about putting down an earthbind totem/frost trap to slow the dragonhawks worked like a charm. We hatched one side, then the other, and I bubbled out of the debuff in between, then slapped on my Shard of the Virtuous and lolhealed once the dragonhawks were dead.

Beserkers right before Malacrass were a bit rough. I'd advise stacking as much avoidance as possible on them.

Have fun :)
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Postby Holywarrior » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:18 am

For OT duties i recommend getting as much Stam as possible, when not actually tanking a target you will still be absorbing damage (Lynx, Bear)
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Postby Seraphia » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:31 am

My little guild has been on again, off again, attempting ZA. We are pretty much limited to 10man/Badge/Heroic gear, and many of our members aren't "maxed" out on it... but reading this thread has frustrated me. I seem to have comparable stats to a lot of the folks in here, but where they seem to clear the place and/or get the bonus items, I just get wafflestomped. :?

Am I the issue? Is there something I should be swapping out, or regemming for? Or have I done all I can?


Unbuffed Stats:

Hp: 16,337
Armor: 17,831 (18,692 with Aura)
Def: 483 (+ 1.24% crit from resilience)
Dodge: 20.79%
Parry: 15.32%
P/D/M: 46.43%
Block: 20.85% (with 364 BV)
Spell dam: 404

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... n=Seraphia


I'm just trying to figure out if it's a matter of our execution, or a lack of DPS, or unsustainable healing etc...
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Postby Holyfuri » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:44 am

Seraphia wrote:My little guild has been on again, off again, attempting ZA. We are pretty much limited to 10man/Badge/Heroic gear, and many of our members aren't "maxed" out on it... but reading this thread has frustrated me. I seem to have comparable stats to a lot of the folks in here, but where they seem to clear the place and/or get the bonus items, I just get wafflestomped. :?

Am I the issue? Is there something I should be swapping out, or regemming for? Or have I done all I can?


Unbuffed Stats:

Hp: 16,337
Armor: 17,831 (18,692 with Aura)
Def: 483 (+ 1.24% crit from resilience)
Dodge: 20.79%
Parry: 15.32%
P/D/M: 46.43%
Block: 20.85% (with 364 BV)
Spell dam: 404

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... n=Seraphia


I'm just trying to figure out if it's a matter of our execution, or a lack of DPS, or unsustainable healing etc...


The only thing I can say about your survivability is your avoidance looks a bit low, I would shoot for at least 50%. You don't have bad gear though, maybe find a shield with more avoidance stats. Your hit points are more than enough.

On another note, 1handed weapon spec > reckoning for threat by far. I would switch that. If you want reckoning there are other options. Dropping 1hws for reckoning is a threat loss in sustainable threat.
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Postby Katerina » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:27 am

What is wafflestomping you? (particular trash, bosses?)

What kind of group are you bringing?

How is the healing working out (do you have a WWS for an attempt? that would help a lot.) It could be you have a underperforming healer (or two). When we two heal it, we do so with extremely competent healers. When I can't get two extremely competent healers, I'll either bring three or bring a spriest.

What kind of cc are you using?

Kill order does make some difference.

And practice helps a ton, especially practicing with mostly the same people. My favorite healer says she knows when I'm about to do something stupid (i.e. outrange her, pull another group before the current is dead, LOS her to nab something) just by looking at my toon. You only get that kind of synergy through logging a lot of hours together. :) (And I probably do the same 'stupid' stuff reset after reset.)

Low dps makes ZA hard. The trash even hits like a truck, so if it takes forever to die it is hard to heal through. I abuse my HoJ button.

But your stats are better than mine, and we do timed runs every reset. So I don't think it is a gear issue on your part. You do want to max out 1hWS. I really love the 0/50/11 build myself.

I can't get to the armory from work, but I assume you have the commendation from H MgT? It adds a lot to your survivability for Bear (and bear trash) and Lynx.

Just a few thoughts. :)
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Postby Seraphia » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:31 pm

I do have the Heroic MgT Trinket. (First try even, much to chagrin of our warriors :) )

No WWS sadly, we've never really needed it before, delays in Kara just took some elbow grease... but we don't seem to be making any actual progress in ZA. I'll see to getting it running for our next real attempt.


What seems to happen, is I seem to die in slow motion, if that makes sense. Usually against Bear Trash, specifically the actual bear/rider trash. I'll be up for a long time and the healing is coming in, but I can see myself dieing, ever so slowly and eventually a heal will finally be too little or too late and splat. We have yet to make it through the Bear trash without at least one partial wipe. :cry:

We do our best to follow the general knowledge guides from the wiki's and wowheads and whatnot, but it doesn't seem to be enough for us.

We can kill the actual bear boss without too much difficulty, but have yet to make it in time for a chest reward. The fight is long, easily 5+ minutes for us. (At least 2 potion timers worth)

We usually try to run with at least 1 mage and druid, normally have a hunter as well. We don't always have a priest but we do have a abundance of rogues and hunters. Almost always have a enhance shaman with us. Our line up is not very consistent week from week, which is hurting us. Fights have to be re-learned every week pretty much. Our gearing across members is equally inconsistent, a few are badged out like myself, others are still getting upgrades via Kara.

The only other boss/area we can attempt consistently is the Eagle+Gauntlet. We run the gauntlet just fine now, I actually have mana issues sometimes. The Warrior will tank the focus mob, while I pretty much tank everything else. Never had any real issues with it once we learned our DPS to move up properly.

The Eagle itself is hit or miss. I tank the Boss, and I'll have the same 'slow motion death' issue at times, but the entire raid seems to have this issue on this boss. The Birds and the AE Damage just slowly chew us out. We can collapse/expand fairly well, but the fight is again, really long. Just taxing the healer mana to exhaustion and slowly the DPS drops 1 by 1 and the fight takes even longer and splat.

We've killed him a few times, but its never a sure thing.



We haven't really tried Lynx yet, and have yet to even see the DragonHawk boss.
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Postby Tiranknight » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:19 pm

The Bear rider mobs in front of the platform to Nalorakk, have a nasty cleave, and also a Shout that increases their damage output by 25%... this can stack so both tanks need to tank the Bear riders a decent way apart from each other. Also the healers really need to be awake, and focused on keeping the tanks up.

It sounds like the problem with your Lackluster ZA runs.. is a lack of good/consistent chemistry. In ZA you really need all 10 group members to bring their "A" game and be focused on doing their job... Especially if you want to make timers. I ussually never die on those trash pulls.. but 1 day we picked up a replacement healer who never ran ZA with us before, and I went splat on those Bear rider mobs. Try to find a consistent group of 10-15 people who will always run together, so you will have that familiarity with each other and won't have to explain how the instance is run every single time.

Also sounds like low DPS could be a problem, my guilds ZA teams are late t5/early t6 geared and even then they sometimes are pushing for the 3rd chest.
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Postby ldeboer » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:33 pm

Seraphia wrote:What seems to happen, is I seem to die in slow motion, if that makes sense. Usually against Bear Trash, specifically the actual bear/rider trash. I'll be up for a long time and the healing is coming in, but I can see myself dieing, ever so slowly and eventually a heal will finally be too little or too late and splat. We have yet to make it through the Bear trash without at least one partial wipe. :cry:
.


When they seperate you take a sudden spike in damage save proc'ing your avoidance trinket to the moment they seperate and as noted above make sure the 2 are tanked well apart. Also call out for big healing lift when you see there HP at 50% a little overheals here will not hurt and the healers get to have a sit after it while you mark next pull.


Seraphia wrote:We can kill the actual bear boss without too much difficulty, but have yet to make it in time for a chest reward. The fight is long, easily 5+ minutes for us. (At least 2 potion timers worth)
.


5 to 7 min is the normal sort of time for not overgeared groups

Seraphia wrote:We usually try to run with at least 1 mage and druid, normally have a hunter as well. We don't always have a priest but we do have a abundance of rogues and hunters. Almost always have a enhance shaman with us. Our line up is not very consistent week from week, which is hurting us. Fights have to be re-learned every week pretty much. Our gearing across members is equally inconsistent, a few are badged out like myself, others are still getting upgrades via Kara.
.


Thats pretty normal for casual guilds ... you will find once you get to hexx like us you will get stuck and have to make standard grps because he "steals" spells depending on classes in raids so changing group composition usually means re learning the hexx fight all over.

Seraphia wrote:The only other boss/area we can attempt consistently is the Eagle+Gauntlet. We run the gauntlet just fine now, I actually have mana issues sometimes. The Warrior will tank the focus mob, while I pretty much tank everything else. Never had any real issues with it once we learned our DPS to move up properly.
.


Again quite normal have a druid save his innervate for you and/or take dark runes along for emergency.

Seraphia wrote:The Eagle itself is hit or miss. I tank the Boss, and I'll have the same 'slow motion death' issue at times, but the entire raid seems to have this issue on this boss. The Birds and the AE Damage just slowly chew us out. We can collapse/expand fairly well, but the fight is again, really long. Just taxing the healer mana to exhaustion and slowly the DPS drops 1 by 1 and the fight takes even longer and splat.

We've killed him a few times, but its never a sure thing.
.


This is sounding very like your avoidance is too low what is your pure avoidance needs to be at least 50%?

Make sure mages etc know if they get lifted they need to use slow fall and priests levitate stops the big crash to earth.

And how many healers are you using at your level you will need 3 and are your druids inervating the healers if they need? This is a big reason to take a druid tank he is dps in this fight but can step out to Brez or inervate as required ... nothing against warriors just a plus of bear tank.

Seraphia wrote:We haven't really tried Lynx yet, and have yet to even see the DragonHawk boss.


Dragonhawk is doable for you guys he doesn't hit hard and it's more about you learning how to deal with hatchers.

I would think Lynx is quite out of the question at your current level the splash damage is enormous and even more healing intensive than bear and eagle and I cant see you surviving the saber lash .. this guy makes the bear boss look like a pussy. On a positive note you have plenty of hunters to tranq shot his mini enrages :-)
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Postby wawel » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:02 am

Seraphia wrote:What seems to happen, is I seem to die in slow motion, if that makes sense. Usually against Bear Trash, specifically the actual bear/rider trash. I'll be up for a long time and the healing is coming in, but I can see myself dieing, ever so slowly and eventually a heal will finally be too little or too late and splat. We have yet to make it through the Bear trash without at least one partial wipe. :cry:


In my opinion:
1. You have low avoidance (dodge/parry/miss)
2. Your healers ssuck in some parts ( i checked your guild healers )

Also try to use HP pots and http://www.wowhead.com/?item=22797


Other thing i saw when i ran ZA yesterday:

Most of dps/healers are just some kind of retards ;).
They stays ( and eagle boss example ) on 20-30% hp ( yes sometimes healer just cant heal all raid and i understand and respect it as healing warrior
I am warrior and i will MT with 20% dodge, 17 parry and 28 block
can be a rly hard job ) and just emo write on raid chat "Heal me" or healers/casters are not using mana pots beetwen pulls.
It ssucks and it is fail grp. Too bad you will see it just after you are saved with them ; :cry:
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Postby Voyd » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:49 am

not sure what the OP is asking..main tank or offtank. never tried main tanking, but for offtanking you don't need kara gear at all if your healers are good. just 490 defense and some consumables to boost your low hp.

i only had around 14k hp buffed, 15 k armor, 495 def....mostly all blues a few kara pieces and offtanked the place easily. granted this was with 2 T6 geared healers....but still, i lived just fine tanking 1 bear aspect(human) and the lynx spirit (used iron shield potions), and all the aoe situations in the zone.

dont believe the people who say you need t5 gear/full badge gear to offtank this place...it simply isnt true. you can do anything if the healers are good enough.
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